TOWN OF SARATOGA
PLANNING BOARD
MINUTES -
DRAFT
JANUARY 27,
2004
7:30 PM
Chairman
Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Clerk
Ruth Drumm called the roll.� Chairman
Ian Murray � present, Susan Cummings� �
present, Ralph Pascucci � present, Albert Baker � present, Paul Griffen �
present, Laurie Griffen � present, Robert Park � present, and Alternate Barney
Drumm � present
Approval
of Minutes: All board members present had read the minutes of the November 25,
2003 meeting.� A motion was made by Sue Cummings and seconded by Robert Park to
accept the minutes of November 25, 2003 as written.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Sue Cummings �
aye, Ralph Pascucci � aye, Albert Baker � aye, Paul Griffen � aye, Robert Park
- aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.�
Carried 7-0
Chairman
Ian Murray asked the board members to consider changing the meeting day to
Wednesday evenings instead of the present Tuesday.� This would enable the board to meet upstairs where there is more
space, better lighting and heat, and more parking since court is not in session
on Wednesday evenings.�
Applicants:
#03-29 June T. Conover
����������� 100 Coveville Rd.
����������� Schuylerville, NY� 12871��
(S/B/L 182. -1. -44., Rural District)
Applicant
is seeking a three-lot subdivision, splitting two lots off from a 10 +/- acre
parcel with the existing residence remaining with the applicant.� The applicant�s lot will be 5 +/- acres with
the two new parcels for her sons at 2.87 +/- and 2.86 +/- acres.�� Jim Vianna, surveyor, representing June
Conover explained that he designed the subdivision around the wetlands buffer
area and that a Negative declaration from the DEC is on file.� He expects approval within a week for the
driveway to cross over the wetland area.�
It was noted that the site distance of the driveway is good and it is
over 400 feet.� An application will be
made to both the State and County for a curb cut permit.� Jim Vianna has talked with Jay Janzack of
the Department of Transportation and they have no issue with it.� Perc and Pit tests have been done and they
will need raised systems. Engineer Paul Male is designing them but is not
finished at this time.� It was noted
that the town had decided to go with engineer-designed systems that the
applicant�s engineer takes full responsibility for.� Neighbor notification has been done and the Agricultural Data
Statement has been sent to the County.�
Jim Vianna stated that all applications have been made and the wetlands
have been approved. �
Proof
of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.� No one came forward, for or against, this
case.
Chairman
Ian Murray stated that any approval would be contingent on the Engineering
review, the raised system and the County�s review.� Ken Martin noted that the buildable line of lot #2 it is only
198.27 feet, not the 200 feet that is needed.�
It was suggested that they could either move the line or go to the
Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance.�
Jim Vianna agreed to move the line so there will be the required 200
feet.
Ralph Pascucci made the
motion to approve the subdivision contingent upon Ken Martin�s review, the
County�s review including the Agricultural Data Statement and upon moving the
buildable line on Lot #2 to the 200 feet required.� Paul Griffen seconded this motion. Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Sue
Cummings � aye, Ralph Pascucci � aye, Albert Baker � aye, Paul Griffen � aye,
Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.�
Carried 7-0� Granted
with conditions.
Case #04-01: Robert L. and
Jean Tarrant,
Applicants�
����������� ��������� 41 Cliffside Drive
��������������������� Saratoga Springs, NY
12866��� (S/B/L 167-1-16, Conservancy
District)
Applicant
is seeking a Special Use Permit to establish a marina on 2.0 acres fronting
Fish Creek off County Road 68. A rowing center will be at this location with
only one powerboat for the coach.�
Chairman Ian Murray noted that the lot lines appear cut up and in order
to remedy this it was suggested that first he subdivide Parcel 1 from Parcel 2
and then combine S/B/L#�s 167.00-9 and 167.00-1-17 with Parcel 2 and then an
easement could be granted.� After some
discussion with Robert Tarrant and Chairman Ian Murray it was agreed that this
would be best.� Robert Tarrant will
rework the plan and come back next month. He will need to go to the Zoning
Board of Appeals for a variance for area and sidelines, since he doesn�t have
the required 3 acres for a marina.�
Proof
of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.� No one came forward, for or against, this
case.
Town
Engineer, Kenneth Martin stated that a full SEQR would be required with the
Planning Board as lead agency.� The long
form SEQR was given to Robert Tarrant.�
He will return with the reworked plan.�
TABLED UNTIL NEXT MONTH.
����������� ��������� 226 County Rd. 67 (& corner of Wagman�s Ridge Rd)
��������������������� Saratoga Springs, NY 12866� (S/B/L 181-1-2, Rural District)
Applicant
is seeking to split off a 4-acre parcel from the 15-acre parcel for conveyance
to their son, Rawson Gamage, with the 11.19 acres remaining with the
applicants.� Jim Vianna, surveyor, spoke
for the Gamage�s.� Jim Vianna stated
that he did the survey and that the neighbor notification was done.� He said that the Agricultural Data Statement
was sent to the County and the site distance from the driveway is
sufficient.� He noted that the Deep Pit
Test engineering data is on the survey map and that the Perc test was
good.�
Proof
of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.� No one came forward, for or against, this
case.
A motion to approve the
Gamage subdivision was introduced by Paul Griffen and seconded by Albert Baker.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Sue Cummings � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
aye, Albert Baker � aye, Paul Griffen � aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie
Griffen - aye.� Carried 7-0� ��The final plans were left with the clerk for
the Town Engineer�s stamp and the Chairman�s stamp of approval.� APPROVED
Case # 04-04:
Walter Taras
����������������������� 173 County Rd. 69
����������������������� Schuylerville, NY 12871 (S/B/L 182-2-15.11, Rural District)
The applicant is seeking a two-lot subdivision separating the existing farmhouse onto a 2+- acre parcel from the larger parcel of 178.32 acres of vacant land. �It was determined that this is a minor subdivision at this time.� Chairman Ian Murray noted that the applicant has another plan to separate 4 one-acre lots from the larger parcel.� If this is done within three years it will then become a major subdivision and will require a full SEQR with DOH approval.� Walter Taras requested a checklist of requirements for the major subdivision and a full SEQR form.� They will be available next week.
Proof
of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.� No one came forward, for or against, this
case.
It
was noted that the applicant needs an Ag Statement on the survey map.� He said that he would ask his surveyor, Paul
Tommel to put it on the survey map and then he would send the map to the Town
Engineer Kenneth Martin.
A motion was made by Albert
Baker to approve the subdivision contingent upon the Ag Statement being
included on the map and was seconded by Sue Cummings.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Sue Cummings � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
aye, Albert Baker � aye, Paul Griffen � aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie
Griffen - aye.� Carried 7-0� APPROVED WITH CONDITION.
Preliminary Subdivision
Hearing:
David McKibbin, Applicant ������������������������� Owner: Joe Sano
1388
Lands End Rd.��������������������������������������������������� 3709
White Angel Dr.
Hypoluxo
Island, FL�� ������������������������������������� North Las Vegas, Nevada
Applicant is seeking a 29-lot subdivision of the 123-acre parcel at the corner of Wagman�s Ridge Rd. and Stafford�s Bridge Rd (County Rd. 68)� (S/B/L 168-3-44.1�� Rural District).� He is seeking 29 single family homes, one and two story of three or four bedrooms each with a town road through from Wagman�s Ridge Rd. to Stafford�s Bridge Rd (County Rd. 68).�
David
McKibbin gave the history of his plight to develop the property starting back
in August of 2003 when he initially requested a 36-unit tourist home on 12
acres with the balance a horse farm/riding stable.� The Special Use Permit for multi-use as a tourist home and
breeding farm/riding stable was denied at a special meeting of the Planning
Board held September 18, 2003 with a positive recommendation to the Zoning
Board of Appeals. At the September 23, 2003 meeting of the Planning Board it
was recommended that he go to the Town Board to request an amendment to the
Zoning Regulations for the tourist home. David McKibbin then came back to the
Planning Board on November 25, 2003 with a preliminary site plan seeking a
special permit to support establishing four tourist home lots and a lot for the
clubhouse (�Carolina Restaurant�).� In
early January, Chairman Ian Murray contacted him that on the Town Attorney�s
advise, the Planning Board did not have the authority to grant the proposal, as
the Zoning Regulations would need to be amended.� He then decided to apply for a 29-lot subdivision. He spoke with
Supervisor Thomas Wood on a new Zoning classification use being added to the
Zoning regulations, which could be called an Agricultural Tourist Home which
would require at least 100 contiguous acres plus further definition as the Town
Board, the Town Attorney, and the Saratoga County Planning Board considers the
amendment.� Last night he met with the
neighbors, including Bob McConnell, on this new use and he was met with
approval.� It was noted that not all the
neighbors were in attendance.� Although
tonight he is here seeking a 29-lot subdivision, he noted he might be back
seeking approval of a special use permit for an Agricultural Tourist Home(s) if
the Zoning Regulations are amended to include it.��
�The board reviewed the site plan presented,
which included 29 two-acre lots with 200 feet of road frontage each.� Chairman Ian Murray noted that there might
not be approval of 29 lots clustered or otherwise, since it depends on the
land, its slopes, wetlands etc. and the Planning Board would likely require a
site visit and workshop.� It was noted
that a clean survey map with contours and features such as watercourses, wooded
areas, cemeteries, etc. would be needed.��
David McKibbin has requested a listing of requirements for the final
steps of the process.� He will call
Chairman Ian Murray in the next couple of days.�� TABLED
Pre-Submission Conference:
Michael
Giovanone, Applicant, represented by Garry Robinson, P.E., consulting
engineer.�� Applicant is seeking a
special permit for multi-family housing located on Route 9P in the Lake
Commercial District. (S/B/L 193.06-1-2)
Garry
Robinson, returning with changes, presented the proposed development of three
buildings with 12 units in each, for a total of 36 units, down from the 40
first proposed.� The site has 313 feet
of road frontage and is now set back 130 feet from Route 9P on the board�s
recommendation.� Ralph Pascucci and
other board members voiced concerns with access to the units for fire
protection and snow removal and possible parking along the access road that
would also hamper access.� There was
concern with a driveway accessing multiple units.� A plan was presented and considered with only one building in an
L-shape of 40 units with firewalls between the common walls.�� Garry Robinson stated a well would be
drilled and that Department of Health requirements would be met, including
routine testing of the well water.�
Michael Giovanone commented that the buildings would be professionally
managed and DOH requirements would be continually met.� Ralph Pascucci questioned building close to
the wetlands and Garry Robinson replied that they are 150 feet from the
wetlands and that the Army Corp of Engineers allows building 100 feet from
wetlands.� Phil Griffen noted that the
one building, L-shape is of concern for fire protection.� Ian Murray stated that he felt that the plan
is still too extensive for the 4-acre parcel and should be cut down further.
Michael Giovanone replied that after last month�s conference they reduced the
number of units (density), added more green space, and increased the
setbacks.� He said he has a proof of
mailing to the neighbors and had not one negative response to his plan. His
plan is to market it as senior housing.��
He asked what the board would like to see on the property?
�After Chairman Ian Murray polled the board,
it was concluded that the plan should be reworked to include two buildings with
16 apartment units each.� The plan needs
to include signage, lighting, additional parking (grass block), and possibly a
turn around.� The buildings should be moved
back as far as possible and the plan should provide the best access for
emergency vehicles.� Town Engineer Ken
Martin noted that he has spoken to the Saratoga County Sewer District today and
although there are not any restrictions, there are some problems that they
would have to work with them on.�
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the board would refer to the County on
the issues of the definition of a multi-family dwelling, the width of the
access road and the private road/driveway, one-use issue and the
cul-de-sac.� Chairman Ian Murray also
stated that he would check with the Town Board on the private road vs. the
driveway, single use issue.�� TABLED � REWORK PLAN
INFORMATION:
J.P. Komorny and Craig
Alsdorf, Owners, and Leslie Pultz, representative
432
Broadway #4
Applicants seeking information on Subdivision, and a Special Use Permit for their proposed project involving 49 +/- acres located along Route 29, between Beaver Street and Wall Street.� Located in the Rural Residential District.�
Craig Alsdorf spoke regarding their pre-conceptual meeting to see how the board receives their plan. Their plans for the 49 +/- acres, which is wooded with beautiful views are for a cluster housing development, approximately 20 homes with � acre lots, and with an additional four (4) one million dollar homes on the 39.89 acre parcel A.� The Equestrian center with an associated condominium complex of two buildings with four units each is planned on the remaining 10-acre parcel B.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if any test pits have been dug and Craig Alsdorf replied no.� He mentioned that there are no DEC wetlands noted on the property.� Ian Murray suggested that Army Corp of Engineers wetlands might exist. Ian Murray also noted that the soil is heavy clay and will present septic problems.� Ian Murray suggested that they do some engineering work first to see what is feasible.�� He then asked what is proposed for Phase 1.� Leslie Pultz replied the cluster development along the side road frontages. The board responded that we prefer clustering but not seeing the houses from the road, with more green space, using the conservation of land in keeping with the rural character of the town.� Craig Alsdorf reiterated that this is just in the initial stage.� It was mentioned that the Granger cemetery plot is located on the property and the plan is to make a memorial park around it.� It was suggested that Alice Zetterstrom could be contacted.� The town is not interested in taking possession of it but would like to see it memorialized.� The second phase, Parcel B, is the condominium complex with the Equestrian center on the 10 acre parcel along Route 29 at the corner of Wall Street.� Chairman Ian Murray suggested eliminating the Phase I cluster housing and going with the Equestrian Center with the million dollar homes.� He felt there are ACOE wetlands on the 10 acres of Parcel B, which may pose a problem.� Craig Alsdorf mentioned that they would increase the setbacks along Route 29.� Ralph Pascucci commented that it�s looking like a PUD and we don�t have a use for condominiums with a horse farm.� The plan has mixed uses.� It was suggested that they rework their plan and come back for another information session and then proceed with the application process.�
�INFORMATION:
Saratoga
Springs, NY 12866
Applicants
would like to know if a Special Use Permit was needed to replace existing
apartment houses at 28, 29 and 30 Saratoga Lake Road with five Townhouses.
The applicants were not
present.�
Steve Mastaitis asked to speak to the board
regarding property he owns next to Michael Giovanone�s on Route 9P (Lake
Commercial District).� He has three
acres with 200 feet of frontage.� He would
like to remove the existing cottage and place a Professional Legal Office
Building on the property.� Ralph
Pascucci stated that Professional Office Buildings are a special permitted use
and he would need to apply for it.�
Steve Mastaitis was encouraged to purchase a Zoning Regulation Book and
arrange to come back before the board for information and then again when he is
ready for the Pre-submission review.� He
purchased the book from the clerk and wasn�t sure when he would be ready to
return.
Old Business:� Chairman Ian Murray again asked the board if there
were objections to moving the monthly meeting night from Tuesday to Wednesday?
There were preferences but nobody that could not make it on Wednesday.� Sue
Cummings made the motion to hold the monthly meeting on the fourth Wednesday of
the month at 7:30 p.m. and Robert
Park seconded this.�� Chairman Ian
Murray � aye, Sue Cummings � aye, Ralph Pascucci � aye, Albert Baker � aye,
Paul Griffen � aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.� Carried
7-0
�
New Business:� Supervisor Thomas Wood encouraged the board to identify and
forward their suggestions on any Zoning regulation changes, clarifications, or
additions they feel are needed to their chairman or any Town Board Member by
February 9, 2004 so they can be reviewed by a panel including our Town
Attorney.� Amendments are then presented
at a public hearing, and voted on by the Town Board.�� Supervisor Thomas Wood also asked the board to give suggestions
for fee increases for the application process for both the ZBA and Planning
Board.��
Ralph
Pascucci asked Supervisor Thomas Wood how do we enforce the Special Permitted
Uses to be sure they are not varied and are adhered to completely?� Supervisor Thomas Wood agreed that it is a
problem with no quick and easy solution. There can be stop work orders
issued.� He suggested that when they are
granted that it is made clearer to them that they must adhere to them
completely. Someday maybe a temp could be hired to go back through the minutes
and enter the Special Use Permits that have been granted in a computer so that
it could be queried when questions arise.�
Chairman Ian Murray asked Ken Martin how the Neilson Landing problem is
going?� Ken Martin responded that he
sent out a letter to Ingalls & Associates regarding the issues of
completing runoff controls and no construction on a frozen subsurface.� The next step would be to stop issuing
building permits for a project that is not living up to its responsibilities.
Chairman
Ian Murray asked Supervisor Thomas Wood how the Agricultural Tourist Home
special use classification would be worded?�
Supervisor Wood replied that they are still working on the definition
trying to structure it so that it will be compatible with the rural structure
of the town.� At this point, by
definition, it will be limited to operating commercial farms of at least 100
contiguous acres with a possible limit to their right to develop the property.
The Town Board members contacted are in favor of the agricultural tourist home
classification but will only go forward with it if the general consensus of the
majority is in favor of it.� They will
continue to work on the definition of the new classification.�
The
next meeting will be Wednesday, February 25, 2004 at 7:30 p.m.
A motion to adjourn was made at 10:50 p.m. by Sue Cummings and seconded by Paul
Griffen. Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Sue Cummings � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
aye, Albert Baker � aye, Paul Griffen � aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie
Griffen - aye.� Carried 7-0
Respectfully
submitted,
Ruth
L. Drumm
Clerk