TOWN OF SARATOGA
MINUTES - DRAFT
July 27, 2005 - 7:30 PM
Chairman Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:33 p.m.
Clerk Catherine Cicero called the roll. Chairman Ian Murray – present, Susan Cummings – present, Ralph Pascucci – present, Albert Baker – present, Paul Griffen – absent, Robert Park – present, Laurie Griffen – present, and alternate Patrick Hanehan – absent.
Approval of Minutes: All board members present had read the minutes of the June 29, 2005 meeting. Albert Baker noted a mistake regarding the deep hole and perc tests at page 2 of the minutes. A motion was made by Susan Cummings to accept the minutes of June 29, 2005 as corrected by Albert Baker, and Laurie Griffen seconded it. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Robert Park – aye. Ralph Pascucci abstained because he hadn’t been at the June 29, 2005 meeting. Carried 5– 0.
Order of Business:
Dr. Leon Reed, Applicant
Schuylerville Central School
14 Spring Street
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 157-1-21.12 Rural Residential
Dr. Leon Reed, Superintendent of the Schuylerville School District, was scheduled to make a presentation of the District’s vision for growth and expansion in the next several years; however, due to a conflicting meeting, he was unable to do so.
Saratoga Builders, LLC Peter & Sue Grassi, Owners
8 Campion Lane 394 Burgoyne Rd.
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 168.-2- 24 & 25 Rural District
Sam Palazzole, Mike Brooks, and Dan Barber appeared before the Board regarding a conventional subdivision of 38 +/- acres consisting of 12 building lots on a new road off of Burgoyne Road.
Sam Palazzole updated the Board on the results of a meeting between Creighton-Manning and Town Engineer Kenneth Martin regarding Creighton-Manning’s traffic report. Town Engineer Kenneth Martin then reviewed a memorandum he had written as a result of that meeting. He recommended that driveway signs be located north and south of the north entrance and north of the south entrance road on Burgoyne Road. The memorandum has been made a part of the permanent file in this application. Laurie Griffin asked what kind of signs were being recommended; Sam Palazzole stated that they would indicate that there were driveways ahead.
Mike Brook reported that the Stormwater Management Plan is being finalized. He and Sam Palazzole had met with the Army Corps of Engineers and determined that the wetlands on the property are isolated. Sam Palazzole stated that 1/3 of an acre will be used to create wetlands as a 1-to-1 offset of wetlands that will be disturbed by the subdivision. He said that the Army Corps of Engineers had approved this proposal. He added that the application to the Army Corps of Engineers is in the process of being finalized. This plan may interfere with prior plans to move the Grassi driveway.
Finally, Sam Palazolle reported that the SHPO report (archeological research) is being finalized and should be made available soon.
Proof of Notice having been provided on July 20, 2005, the Public Hearing was opened at 7:46 p.m. Chairman Ian Murray asked that people state their name, address, and whether they were for or against the project.
Frank Naret, 366 Burgoyne Rd.—Opposed. A joint statement made by Frank Naret and Mary Field has been made a part of the permanent record of this application.
Mary Field, 366 Burgoyne Rd.—Opposed as proposed. Ms. Field posed the following questions to the Planning Board:
1. What is the designated zoning for the proposed subdivision property?
2. Could the Board explain Mr. Palazzole’s reference to clearing at the north entrance of the property?
3. Could the Board explain what they meant when they referred to the Creighton-Manning traffic report’s design and posted speeds? Shouldn’t Creighton-Manning know the criteria for its reports?
4. Who will be responsible for verifying the no-cut areas?
5. Could the Board re-cap the subdivision’s plan for water overflow?
6. Will Town Attorney William Reynolds review the findings of title searches of the appropriate deeds?
7. Are there any lighting or noise standards for a subdivision in a rural area and where would they be recorded?
8. Are there any setbacks in the Town for wetlands?
9. What happens if she loses her water during development?
10. What is the proposed speed of the new Town road?
11. Will there be another public hearing?
12. Can an appointment be made to do a walk-through of the property with the Planning Board so the development plans can be explained?
Ms. Field then contrasted the terms “conservation” and “conventional” with regard to the planned subdivision and raised concerns regarding development within the Town.
Chuck Carlstrom, 344 Burgoyne—Opposed. Mr. Carlstrom had concerns about the no-cut zone, the 50’ side buffers, run-off from lots 7 and 8 into his pond, lights, noise, water, and traffic safety. He wondered if the houses plot plans or driveways could be changed once the subdivision was approved.
Kim Kennedy, 349 Burgoyne—Opposed. Ms. Kennedy raised traffic safety concerns.
John Fowler, 320 Burgoyne—Opposed. Mr. Fowler opposed the development on the basis of additional traffic, noise, increased taxes, and environmental effects.
Diane Fowler, 320 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Marilyn Zaborek, 387 Burgoyne—Opposed. Ms. Zaborkek’s written statement has been made a part of the permanent record in this application.
Penelope Benson-Wright, 475 Burke—Opposed. Ms. Benson-Wright’s written statement has been made a part of the permanent record of this application.
Cynthia Hrubenak, 352 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Mark Jewell, 334 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Mariana Jensen, 370 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Richard Fron, 370 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Clarence Fosdick, 329 Burgoyne—Opposed. Mr. Fosdick repeated concerns regarding traffic safety on the road and added that the grades on the road are underlaid with sand, creating problems with washouts. He also repeated his concerns raised at previous meetings regarding the future of the Town of Saratoga, which is being drastically changed by development, and which he believes to be too dense.
Dennis Kagel, 147 Hayes—Opposed.
Alexandra Young, 43 Pearl St., Schuylerville—Opposed.
Timothy Gregoire, 358 Burgoyne—Opposed.
Peter Salaway, 341 Burgoyne—Opposed.
All those wishing to speak having done so, the Public Hearing was closed at 8:44 p.m.
Chairman Ian Murray responded to the comments by first explaining that all the members of the Planning Board are volunteers, residents of the Town of Saratoga, as well as taxpayers.
He then noted that everyone involved in the design of the plans is an engineer professional, whether civil engineer, environmental professional engineer, etc. Everything filed is being thoroughly reviewed by Town Engineer Kenneth Martin. He added that there will be a second public hearing if and when this application proceeds.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the 75’ no-cut buffer will be written into the deeds, so if there is a problem later, Town Zoning Officer Robert Hathaway would be able to enforce the provision. Concerns with enforcement can be taken up with the Town Board.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin noted that NYDOH will handle all issues regarding sanitation and sewer.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the zoning for this parcel is in the rural district, which mandates 80,000 square foot lots. He stated that the posted speed limit on Burgoyne Road is 40 mph, which the Planning Board has no authority to change or enforce. He repeated that the townspeople could petition the Town Board to change the speed limit.
Ralph Pascucci wondered whether stop signs in the area could mitigate some of the danger along that particular curve on Burgoyne. He suggested that the Town Board be notified of the situation, because the Town sets the speed limits.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that NYDEC has jurisdiction over the wetlands on the property. He explained that the DEC document did look at the 100 year stormwater issues.
Chairman Ian Murray explained that the DEC sets 100’ setbacks for wetlands, and that the Army Corps of Engineers has no setback regulations. He added that the steep slopes on the property are taken into consideration in the stormwater management plan.
Chairman Ian Murray then asked for a motion that the preliminary review of this project was complete. Laurie Griffin stated that she wanted to see all pertinent information before making a decision on the final application.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that the stormwater management plan, sanitary and water issues will be addressed before the final application is complete. That information is not available yet.
Laurie Griffin and Robert Park wanted to review comments from interested residents before making a final decision.
Chairman Ian Murray explained the difference between the preliminary and final review. He stated that after the preliminary review, the Applicant will move forward with test wells, and the completion of other pre-development requirements.
Robert Park made a motion, seconded by Susan Cummings, that preliminary approval for the project be granted. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Robert Park – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye. Carried 6– 0. RETURNING
James M. DeGregory, Applicant John & Josie DeGregory, Owners
31 ½ Hudson St. 378 Co. Rt. 68
South Glens Falls, NY 12803 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 168-2-59.1 Rural
Returning Applicant proposes to subdivide 4.09+/- acres from a 224.83+/- acre parcel of land belonging to his parents, which straddles County Rt. 68. James DeGregory addressed the Board, reporting that the deep hole and perc tests have been added to the survey map, as well as the building envelope and driveway location. Chairman Ian Murray noted that the agricultural statement had to be added to the map. He also noted that the County Planning Board had approved the application, with the provision that the Applicant contact the County for a driveway cut permit.
Laurie Griffin then read the short form EAF, which was completed by the Board. Albert Baker made a motion, seconded by Laurie Griffin, that the short form EAF was complete and declare a negative declaration. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Robert Park – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye. Carried 6– 0.
Ralph Pascucci made a motion to grant the application with the condition that the Applicant include the agricultural statement on his survey map. Albert Baker seconded that motion.
Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Robert Park – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye. Carried 6– 0. GRANTED WITH CONDITIONS
Gordon P. Nicholson, Applicant Walter J. Taras, Owner
900 Rte 146 173 Co. Rd 69
Clifton Park, NY 12065 Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 182.-2-15.11 Rural
Gavin Vuillaume of Environmental Design Partnership and James Vianna addressed the Board regarding Phase II of a planned development, consisting of a 38 unit subdivision of single family homes on 121.82+/- acres.
Mr. Vuillaume reported that the plans had been changed so that there would be no access off of Casey Road and that the existing vegetation would be kept as a forever-wild buffer. He asked when the Planning Board would like to take a walk through of the site.
Chairman Ian Murray expressed disappointment that, after the third submission of plans, the proposed development looks relatively the same. He added that the Board had asked for a 75’ buffer, which was not reflected in the plans.
Mr. Vianna explained that the wetlands on the property, calculated at 10.5 acres, are not included in the area to be set aside, and went through the calculations used to determine the 109 acres of buildable land. He said that 52.5 acres of that are reserved for Phase III of the project. He will provide more data at the next Planning Board meeting.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the plans were still not creative enough. Ralph Pascucci asked if the lots could be made smaller. Mr. Vianna responded that he wouldn’t set the lots at smaller than 20,000 square feet.
Chairman Ian Murray and Susan Cummings stated that density is an issue. Mr. Vianna suggested putting 10 of the lots on another parcel of Mr. Taras’ property. He offered to speak with Mr. Taras on the matter.
Chairman Ian Murray asked for schematics and sketches.
A walk through the property with the Planning Board members was set for Wednesday evening, August 3, 2005, at 5:00 p.m. RETURNING
Robert and Jane Kimball, Applicants
124 Franklin Beach Rd
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 193.05-1-18,19,20 Lake Residential
Applicants propose to transfer lot 19, on the north side of Franklin Beach Road, and part of lot 20 to his currently owned lot 18. They also propose to transfer the waterfront
(south) side of lot 20 to another party. Lots 18 and 20 are both waterfront property on Saratoga Lake. All three parcels front Franklin Beach Road. Attorney Steve Mastaitis explained the situation to the Board, stating that the parcels involved all have separate deeds, which were never combined although the tax map refers to two of the parcels as one.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that lot 19 and the back of lot 20 will be combined as a lot-line adjustment. The third parcel is a noncomforming lot, but has not been created as the result of an illegal subdivision. He stated that the deeds needed to be combined to clear up further confusion.
The Planning Board will then refer this matter to Town Attorney William Reynolds for review and approval. NO ACTION NECESSARY
Steve Gilman, Applicant
130 Ruckytucks Rd
Stillwater, NY 12170
S/B/L 194-2-38 Rural
Steve Gilman addressed the Board, proposing to subdivide a 5+/- acre lot with 230’ of road frontage from his 47.06+/- acre parcel.
Albert Baker asked Mr. Gilman the names of his neighbors, which were the O’Brians to the east, Collins to the west, and Bigelows in the back.
Chairman Ian Murray advised Mr. Gilman to complete a survey, do the deep hole and perc engineering tests, and include the agricultural statement on the survey map.
There followed a brief discussion on whether Mr. Gilman had to complete the engineering tests before the property was sold, or whether the buyer of the property would have to pay for those tests. Ralph Pascucci noted that, in the past, the Board has approved property without those tests, with the provision that the tests would have to be performed before a building permit would be issued. Mr. Gilman indicated that that is the way he would like to proceed.
Susan Cummings asked whether enough acreage had been left for sufficient frontage on the remaining lot. Mr. Gilman assured her that there was plenty of acreage left.
Chairman Ian Murray asked about the sight distances for the driveway. Mr. Gilman stated that there was a farm road located there already, which was the best way to get into the property, and which was located across from an existing driveway. Town Engineer Kenneth Martin asked that the farm road be designated as the driveway. Chairman Ian Murray requested that the road be put on the survey map as the driveway.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that he would provide Mr. Gilman with the necessary language for the survey map.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that Mr. Gilman should perform the survey two weeks prior to the next Planning Board meeting so a public hearing could be held. RETURNING
Special Use Permit
Pember Dupras, Applicant Michael & Shawna Bannon, Owners
175 Louden Road 366 Puritan Road
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Gansevoort, NY 12831
S/B/L 156-1-38.32 Rural Residential
David Mansfield addressed the Board for returning Applicant who is seeking a special use permit to move his business, Rain or Shine Tent Co., Inc., to a new location on property located 600’ west of Beaver Street on the south side of Rt 29. He has outgrown his existing location at 1061 Rt 29 in Grangerville. The proposed parcel consists of 5.44+/-acres.
Mr. Mansfield reported that the archaeological study is being done and should be ready by the August Planning Board meeting. The Stormwater Management Report is being completed.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the SEQR process is still open. Ralph Pascucci asked the Applicant to find out the actual address of the parcel.
Mr. Mansfield stated that current plans call for an additional dumpster enclosure, combined with the propane tanks, within a chain link fence. There will be additional plantings and there have been changes in the elevation of the building. There are now windows across the front of the building, and a single overhead door on the west side of the building. All deliveries will be in the back of the building. The building will be slate grey with an emerald green roof. There will be two cupolos on the top of the building. Plantings will be located along the road.
Chairman Ian Murray noted that the County Planning Board approved the plans, subject to NYSDOT approval.
There followed a brief discussion on the special use permit, and what would happen to the building if Mr. Dupras decided to discontinue his business. Chairman Ian Murray explained that the permit is for a service/retail business. The permit cannot be automatically transferred; any new owner of the property would have to come before the Board to receive permission to continue a business there.
Proof of Notice having been provided on July 15, 2005, the Public Hearing was opened at 10:16 p.m. Chairman Ian Murray asked that people state their name, address, and whether they were for or against the project.
Dennis Kagel, 147 Hayes Rd—Neither for or against. Mr. Kagel had questions concerning the actual location of the parcel, the size of the building, and whether trees along the creek would remain. Mr. Dupras explained that the building is 62’x80’, that it is 400’ from the creek, and that the trees would remain.
Edna Nash, 102 Hughes Rd—Opposed. Mrs. Nash was concerned about noise from the business. Mr. Dupras explained that any noise would occur during normal business hours, during daylight hours.
Cynthia Hrubenak, 352 Burgoyne—Opposed. Ms. Hrubenak had questions regarding the hours of operation and the type of business being conducted on the site. She asked about signs, to which Mr. Dupras stated that there would be no storefront signs, only a small sign for deliveries near the road. The building is designed so that much of Mr. Dupras’ maintenance work can be done inside the building.
Vincent Hill, 1008 Rt 29—Opposed. Mr. Hill raised concerns about traffic safety, site distances, noise, and lights at night. Mr. Dupras stated that he currently deals with traffic at his current site on Rt 29. He did not think there would be excessive traffic from his business. The landscaping around his building is designed to be respectful of the privacy of this neighbor. There will be security lights on the building, but that will be on the other side from the neighbor.
Marilyn Zaborek, 387 Burgoyne—Opposed. Ms. Zaborek repeated her concerns about development along Fish Creek.
All those wishing to speak having done so, the Public Hearing was closed at 10:40 p.m.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the SEQR process, with the Town of Saratoga as lead agency, the archeological research, and the Stormwater Management Report are still outstanding and must be completed before final approval. Also, the Applicant must get NYSDOT approval for his driveway. RETURNING
156 Sparrowbush Road
Latham, NY 12110
S/B/L 103-1-2 Lake Commercial
Applicant is seeking a special use permit for a boat storage facility on Route 9P, south of Lee’s Trailer Park. Attorney Stephanie Ferradino spoke for the Applicant, stating that a traffic report has been prepared by Creighton-Manning and will be available by the next Planning Board meeting. Jim Miller discussed changes to the original plans. The lighting for the facility will be on the interior of the lot, the driveway has been widened to 28’, and the parking layout has been revised. There will be 80 bays with 12’ overhead doors, about 14’ wide and running the full depth of the buildings.
Ralph Pascucci asked how the calculations for the size of the buildings had been made. There followed a discussion on the extent of the wetlands on the property and the effect on the building coverage on the property. The Applicant will revise the building coverage calculations, removing the wetlands from the calculations.
Mr. Giovanone intends to use the storage facility primarily for boats and perhaps some recreational vehicles. Ms. Ferradino stated that this would eliminate some of the boats stored in yards along the lake throughout the year.
There followed a discussion on the definition of boat storage and whether this is a boat storage facility or a dry marina. The Planning Board has the authority to make that determination. Chairman Ian Murray stated that he had spoken with someone from the State Parks and Recreation who told him that the State launch is closed at 11:00 a.m. sometimes because it is filled to capacity. He had been told that on one day 950 boats were launched at the site.
Laurie Griffin asked whether there were any similar facilities in the region, such as Lake George.
Ms. Ferradino stated that she didn’t know of any; the Applicant got his idea from similar facilities in Florida.
Mr. Miller explained the stormwater management plan for the property. He added that test pits had been done on the property and found that the groundwater is close to the elevation of the wetlands.
Ralph Pascucci asked how leaking pollutants from boats and vehicles would be contained. Mr. Miller said that everything in the building is on a concrete slab and they are not allowed to have drains within the buildings, but they may be able to do something about that problem. There will be no storage outside, and there will be no washing or maintenance within the buildings.
There followed a discussion on the similarities and differences between this facility and that owned by Thomas Carringi. Ralph Pascucci did not believe the facilities to be comparable. He stated that the Carringi facility is ancillary to a marina even though the storage property is not contiguous to the marina. He stated that when that facility was approved, the conditions surrounding the lake were much different as well. He said the use was appropriate for that lot, which would support the marina. Further, strict guidelines were set for the moving of boats back and forth between the storage area and the marina. He said the Board was very specific and very careful about what would be allowed on the property at the time the permit was granted.
Town Attorney William Reynolds said that he would review the application to see whether the use is permitted in the Lake Commercial District.
Susan Cummings asked whether there would be room enough for emergency vehicles to get into the facility.
Robert Park asked whether there would be firewalls between the bays to prevent a fire from spreading throughout the facility.
Laurie Griffin stated that there may need to be a turn-around area at the end of the facility for both emergency vehicles and boat owners who would need a large turning radius.
Albert Baker stated that there may have to be a size limit on the boats depending on how much swing room they needed.
Ralph Pascucci stated that the driveway would have to be wide enough for boats to pass each other in opposite directions.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the review for the facility would probably require the long form SEQR and that the Applicant should probably speak with someone from the State Parks and Recreation Department for more information. RETURNING
William J. Reynolds
800 Rt 29
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 168.-3-69.2 Rural Residential
Mr. Reynolds is looking for guidance from the Planning Board on how to subdivide his property on Rt 29. He related that a trailer had been put on the firelane in the 1960’s and he would now like to put a modular house there that would be slightly larger than the trailer. Mr. Reynold’s driveway is off the firelane. Although the trailer is still on the property, it may be structurally unsound since it hasn’t been occupied for 3 or 4 years.
Ralph Pascucci stated that there is a regulation that allows for a structure to be replaced by another within the existing footprint, but that the Planning Board must be consulted when the new building falls outside the existing footprint. He believed that the Board had dealt with a similar circumstance once before, but couldn’t remember any details.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that he would refer this matter to Town Attorney William Reynolds for an interpretation.
Saratoga Apple, Inc.
P.O. Box 171
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 157-1-21.12 Rural Residential
Mr. Darrow explained to the Board that he is in negotiations to receive funds for the purchase of development rights for 53 acres of his orchard property located near the Schuylerville monument. He has another 20 acre piece closer to the Morgan’s Run subdivision which has increased in value as a result of the nearby development. He is planning on giving Bill Peck a right-of-way to some landlocked property near the monument. Then Mr. Peck would include 25 acres of his land in the PDR designated land. He added that when the time came for the property transfer, he would be back before the Planning Board for a lot-line adjustment.
Mr. Darrow stated that he is considering making property on the north side of Rt 29 into a destination farm, which would give him a longer and busier season. This might include a retail village with an agricultural theme, but then that property would not be eligible for PDR funds.
Chairman Ian Murray asked whether this would entail a PUD. Mr. Darrow responded that he hasn’t reached any decisions on what he will do with this property and did not want to appear before the Board after having committed to restrictions regarding the property pursuant to PDR regulations.
Ralph Pascucci clarified that Mr. Darrow did not want to encumber his property north of Rt 29.
Mr. Darrow may consider a PUD at some point in the future, or do something with the 20 acres near Morgan’s Run.
Bill Hoogeveen, Applicant John and Barbara Hoogeveen, Owners
19 Oakleaf Dr. 206 County Rd 71
Clifton Park, NY 12065 Stillwater, NY 12170
S/B/L 206-1-36.2 Rural
Mr. Hoogeveen proposes to build a second home on his parents’ farm. Mr. Hoogeveen pointed out on his map where he would like to put his house and explained that he would put the driveway at the top of the rise where the site distances are good. He needs to subdivide the property in order to secure a bank loan. It was determined that his proposal is actually a sketch plan and he was advised to return with a survey and the necessary engineering tests, which have to be reflected on the map in time for the next Planning Board meeting. The map would also have to include the agricultural statement. RETURNING
Old Business: Chairman Ian Murray reported that the Burke property proposal had been pulled from the July meeting agenda at the request of James Vianna because the drainage design was being revised. There followed a discussion on the lay-out of the lots on the Burke proposal and whether the Board will request the Applicant to redesign the lots.
New Business: Planning Clerk Catherine Cicero asked the Board for feedback on the minutes. It was the consensus of the Boardmembers that the minutes are not too detailed, and that they would like to see them continue in the same format. A discussion followed on ways to improve the efficiency of getting the minutes done. Two suggestions were that a laptop computer be acquired to speed notetaking during the meetings, and that the deadline for posting the meeting minutes be extended to three weeks after the meeting. The Boardmembers said that they would speak with Town Supervisor Tom Wood and the rest of the Town Board concerning these suggestions.
The next meeting is scheduled for August 24, 2005 at 7:30 p.m.
A motion to adjourn was made at 12:07 a.m. by Ralph Pascucci and seconded by Laurie Griffin. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Robert Park – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, and Ralph Pascucci – aye. Carried 6-0.
Catherine E. Cicero