TOWN OF SARATOGA
MINUTES - DRAFT
May 24, 2006 - 7:30 PM
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Planning Clerk Catherine Cicero called the roll. Chairman Ian Murray – absent (Chairman Ian Murray arrived at 8:44 p.m.), Vice-chair Susan Cummings – present, Ralph Pascucci – present, Paul Griffen – present, Robert Park – present, Laurie Griffen – absent (Laurie Griffen arrived at 8:24 p.m.), and Patrick Hanehan – absent.
Also attending: Town Engineer Kenneth Martin, Town Supervisor Tom Wood, and many interested members of the public (Sign-In Sheet on file in the Minute Book).
Due to the absence of Chairman Ian Murray and Laurie Griffen, the Board postponed its vote to approve the minutes from the April meeting until the end of the meeting.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings explained that there were enough Board members present to carry an action, provided that the vote was unanimous. She advised the parties that they could wait until Chairman Ian Murray and Laurie Griffen arrived to discuss their applications if they were concerned about having enough votes.
Order of Business:
Saratoga Apple, Inc.
NY State 29
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 157.-1-21.12 Rural Residential
Nate Darrow appeared to discuss compliance with Town ordinances regarding a trailer on his property. Mr. Darrow explained that he had installed a new trailer for his farm workers, but had not applied for a permit from Town Zoning Officer Robert Hathaway before doing so. The trailer has been inspected by the NYS Department of Health, however.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings explained that the trailer must be situated so that it is possible to legally subdivide it from the rest of the property in the future, if necessary. It was determined that there is approximately 1100’ of road frontage available, so there is ample road frontage for a future subdivision to be legally made.
In response to a question from Ralph Pascucci, Mr. Darrow said that the old trailer is still on his property, but is not being used, not even for storage. Paul Griffen said that the abandoned trailer should be removed.
Paul Griffen made a motion, seconded by Robert Park, to determine that Mr. Darrow is in compliance with Town zoning regulations if Town Zoning Officer Robert Hathaway confirms that the trailer is situated such that it can be legally subdivided from the rest of the property in the future, if necessary. If, after a one year period, the abandoned trailer remains unused, it must be removed. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 4 – 0.
Nick Washco, Applicant
219 Walsh Rd.
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 169-1-77.1 Rural
Returning Applicant is seeking to subdivide a 22.40+/- acre parcel into two lots: one approximately 7+ acres, and the other 14+ acres. Nick Washco addressed the Board, explaining that there were still some questions regarding the septic system after the last meeting. He currently has a buyer for the second lot and is trying to close on the sale within the next couple of weeks.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that the initial percolation test had been "tight" and had therefore been redone. He had no further reservations regarding the septic system or the proposed subdivision, adding that the setbacks were also in compliance.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings reported that the public hearing for this application took place in December. She then read a letter from a neighbor of the property supporting the subdivision.
A short discussion followed regarding the sight distances for the driveways. It was determined that there would not be a safety problem.
Robert Park then read the short form EAF, which was completed by the Board. Ralph Pascucci made a motion, seconded by Paul Griffen, to accept the documents as presented, declare the SEQR review complete, and to make a negative declaration. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen –aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 4– 0.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings asked the Board if there were any further questions. There were none.
Robert Park made a motion, seconded by Ralph Pascucci, to grant the subdivision as presented. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen –aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 4– 0. GRANTED
Barney & Shirley Drumm, Applicants
139 Coveville Rd.
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 182.-1-68 Rural
Applicants propose to add a 14.25+/- acre parcel to their current property; then subdivide and sell off a 165’x400’ piece, which includes a residence. The remainder of the property, which has a trailer situated on it, would be combined on one deed. Although noticed for a public hearing, the survey wasn’t ready in time for the meeting. The application is now scheduled for the June meeting. TABLED
Michele Rifenberg, Applicant
216 Hayes Rd
Schuylerville, NY 12866
Applicant proposes to subdivide a 6.5+/- parcel into one 4.5+/- acre lot and one 2+/- acre lot. The Applicant plans to build a residence for herself on the 4.5+/- acre lot in the near future.
Dan Wheeler addressed the Board on behalf of Ms. Rifenberg, and distributed a revised map to the Board. He explained that the initial plan to place the two driveways close together had to be changed due to the placement of the septic system. Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that he had spoken with Town Highway Superintendent David Hall regarding the sight distances for the new driveways. It was determined that the nearby bank will be graded off and a maple tree will be removed to improve the sight distance to 400’.
There followed a brief discussion on the location and extent of the wetlands on the property. Town Engineer Kenneth Martin stated that Ms. Rifenberg will have to pipe over the wetlands, but since she will be disturbing much less than a tenth of an acre in doing so, she wouldn’t be violating any environmental regulations.
Paul Griffen asked Mr. Wheeler to make sure that the building envelope was in conformance with Town zoning regulations, stating that the Town tries to avoid the creation of pie-shaped lots.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin requested that Mr. Wheeler determine the distance between the proposed septic system and the well of the neighboring house. He noted that there needed to be a distance separation of 200’ and that the leech field cannot be located within wetlands. Mr. Wheeler stated that Harold Berger will design the raised septic system.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings reported that the County Planning Board has determined that there will be no significant County wide or inter community impact resulting from the subdivision; therefore, a supermajority vote would not be needed to grant the subdivision.
It was determined that the neighboring well would be located, and that Town Engineer Kenneth Martin would approve the septic site as a condition for granting the subdivision. As a second condition for approval, Town Engineer Kenneth Martin will review the plans for a raised septic system.
The new Town water regulations apply to the subdivision. Town Engineer Kenneth Martin explained that no building permit will be issued until a well has been dug and tested.
There followed a brief discussion on whether the septic system needs to be designed for lots that have no immediate plans for construction. Ralph Pascucci was concerned that the Board needs to be consistent when requiring such plans.
Robert Park then read the short form EAF, which was completed by the Board. Paul Griffen made a motion, seconded by Ralph Pascucci, to accept the documents as presented, declare the SEQR review complete, and to make a negative declaration. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen –aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 4– 0.
Vice-Chair Susan Cummings asked the Board if they had any further questions. There were none.
Ralph Pascucci made a motion, seconded by Robert Park, to grant the subdivision with the condition that Town Engineer Kenneth Martin would review and approve the placement and plans for the septic systems. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen –aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 4– 0. GRANTED WITH CONDITIONS
[The applications of Donald & Margaret Ormsby and Joseph Lewandowski were discussed next due to the absence of Chairman Ian Murray and Laurie Griffen. The remainder of the agenda follows in order.]
Donald & Margaret Ormsby, Applicants
331 Rte 32
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 182-1-53, 54, & 55 Rural
Applicants propose two lot-line adjustments and the creation of one new lot on the above named property.
James Vianna addressed the Board on behalf of the Ormsbys, stating that the parcel consists of 16.5+/- acres located south of the Quaker Springs trailer park. There are 4 residences on 3 separate deeds, some of which predate the Town’s zoning regulations. The residences are all existing; no new construction is planned. Mr. Vianna is proposing to clean up the boundary lines by situating each residence on its own lot. He then explained the map, stating that the Planning Board approved a similar 4 lot subdivision in 1990 which was never filed. Since then, a residence containing that plan has burned and the records lost. Mr. Vianna presented a copy of the original subdivision plans.
There followed a discussion on what aspects of the proposal would need to be presented to the Zoning Board of Appeals due to lack of road frontage and lot width. Another issue involves lack of side yard setback. Mr. Vianna stated that an argument could be made that some of the deeds pre-date the Town’s zoning regulations and therefore could be grandfathered.
Paul Griffen made a motion, seconded by Laurie Griffen, to grant a lot-line adjustment for lot one and deny the remainder of the proposal, and refer it to the Zoning Board of Appeals. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen –aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, and Robert Park – aye. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings noted that a new deed would have to be issued for the lot-line adjustment. Carried 5– 0. GRANTED IN PART AND DENIED IN PART
Joseph Lewandowski, Applicant
124 DeGarmo Rd.
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 156.-4-25.111 Rural Residential
Applicant proposes to combine the following parcels onto one deed: 156.-2-16, 18 and 19 located at 100, 109, and 124 DeGarmo Road. Mr. Lewandowski explained that he has a contract to purchase property from Mr. Galcik and Mr. Lofgren, and would like to combine the parcels on one deed, together with the property he currently owns. He said that his intention is to open the property up and put a driveway to the Lofgren property from DeGarmo Rd. Although Mr. Lewandowski would like to put in a retail operation down the road, his immediate intention is to erect a sign and a split rail fence. Mr. Lewandowski said that someone is currently renting the trailer on the Lofgren property and asked if the trailer could remain for awhile.
There followed a discussion on the pros and cons of combining the parcels onto one deed. Laurie Griffen made a motion, seconded by Ralph Pascucci, to grant the lot-line adjustment with the provision that Mr. Lewandowski has one year to remove the trailer on the Lofgren parcel. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, and Robert Park – aye. Vice-Chair Susan Cummings noted that a new deed would have to be issued for the lot-line adjustment. Carried 6 – 0. GRANTED
Saratoga Builders, LLC, Applicant Valente Realty Partners, Owner
8 Campion Lane 315 Partition St.
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Rensselaer, NY 12144
S/B/L 155.-1-27.1&3 Rural Residential
Returning Applicant proposes a conservation subdivision consisting of 40 building lots on 80.41+/- acres, including 36.4+/- acres of green space. The proposed subdivision would be located at the intersection of NYS Rte 29 and Louden Road.
Sam Palazzole addressed the Board, explaining the proposed revised map, including 1 acre to be donated to the Quaker Springs Fire District for a substation on NYS Route 29, and 27.6+/- acres to be deeded to the Town of Saratoga for a park. He added that there will be one access road to the development from Louden Road.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that he had discussed the proposal with a couple of park planners who suggested that it is more beneficial for Towns to group together to establish parks. There followed a discussion on the possibility of including the Town of Northumberland in the planning process. Town Supervisor Tom Wood reported that the Town of Northumberland is very interested in becoming involved in the project. The following discussion covered possible areas for parking, the extent of the parking areas, the location of access to the park, and whether or not the park needs to abut the Town of Northumberland. Chairman Ian Murray commented that the process will need a lot of creative thought to make it work.
There followed a discussion on the issue of safety, given that the proposed park and ball fields are located directly across NYS Route 29 from the Farmer’s Daughter ice cream stand. Ralph Pascucci stated that he would not like to see the park entrance located there.
The Board members discussed the fact that the proposal does not exactly meet the requirements of a conservation subdivision because half the property is not designated as green space. Laurie Griffen commented that the proposal has been revised since the last meeting. The Board was unable to reach an agreement on this issue. Mr. Palazzole said that he would recalculate the proposed areas for the next meeting. RETURNING
MKN Development, LLC, Applicant
c/o Jones Ferradino
68 West Avenue
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 206-1-34 Rural
Applicant proposes a 16 residence subdivision on 84.83+/- acre parcel on Brown Road. Stephanie Ferradino addressed the Board, accompanied by Jason Tommelle of Tommelle Associates, and architect John Muse.
Ms. Ferradino explained the subdivision, stating that the developer could have proposed a conservation subdivision as that term is traditionally defined, but given the extraordinary views from the property (a view of the Lake from one side of the road and a view of the 12 acre pond from the other), it was determined that any proposal should preserve the views and open space, and avoid sprawl. The clustered homes on the proposal do not have defined property lines as yet.
Mr. Tommelle pointed out the inherent constraints of the property, such as the extensive wetlands and the 12 acre pond. He said the wetlands have not yet been delineated and estimated that they cover approximately 12 acres of the parcel, and are situated in three different areas. He added that the farmland was also a constraint in that the developer did not want to lose the rural look of the parcel. The number of lots was determined by adding up the road frontage and dividing it by the 200’ Town zoning requirement.
Mr. Muse explained the placement of the houses, particularly the clustered homes at the curve of Brown Road where it intersects with Hill Road. Mr. Muse said that it was his intent to have the clustered homes look like a farm compound, indicating a central farmhouse surrounded by outbuildings. He distributed photos of similar projects elsewhere in the country, stating that the central building will look like a traditional 1880 farmhouse and the surrounding residences will be of various sizes.
Ralph Pascucci asked where the property lines would be, but commented that, philosophically, this is what he would like to see in the Town’s development. He said that he has a lot of questions, but would like to see this project work. Mr. Pascucci asked if this proposal should be classified as a PUD so it wouldn’t need to meet traditional zoning requirements.
Paul Griffen commented that the development would have to be deed restricted against further subdivision.
Both Paul Griffen and Ralph Pascucci said that they loved the concept, and that it had intrinsic value in preserving the property’s rural character.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the Board needs more answers before it can go forward. A walk-through of the property was scheduled for June 12 at 6:00 p.m. Neighbors were invited to join the walk-through, which is to begin at the access road at the back right on Brown Road. Ms. Ferradino estimated that the walk-through will take approximately one and a half to two hours, and advised everyone to wear boots.
The Board members will meet with Mr. Tommelle at the end of the walk-through to determine what the next step in the process will be. Ms. Ferradino stated that she will be discussing the project with the neighbors to obtain their input. RETURNING
Special Use Permits
Thomas Carringi, Applicant
1236B Rte 9P
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 193.06-1-46.11 Lake Commercial
Returning Applicant, owner of Point Breeze Marina Storage, is requesting that his special use permit be revised to allow another building to be constructed for use as storage related to the marina: inside boat storage, boat trailers, and outboard engines.
Mr. Carringi told the Board that he has owned his marina for thirty years and wants to erect a final storage building on the property just down from the marina. The proposed building will be 175’x50’; the resulting total lot coverage of all the buildings will be 17%.
Chairman Ian Murray said that the Board still needs to see a stormwater management plan. Paul Griffen questioned Mr. Carringi about outside storage on the property. Mr. Carringi explained that he has temporarily stored boats outside the buildings while in the process of moving other boats. He said the weather has been too wet to put the boats in the Lake.
Chairman Ian Murray read from the Planning Board minutes from May 2005, which included the requirements necessary to grant the special use permit.
There followed a discussion on whether or not there were wetlands on the property. Mr. Carringi said that he has a letter from NYS DEC from the 1980’s declaring that the back property does not hold natural wetlands. He will provide the Board with a copy of that letter.
Town Engineer Kenneth Martin noted that the proposed building looks very close to the edge of the back of the property and the swale area. He will inspect the property before the building envelope is approved. There was a discussion regarding the placement of the building so that there would be enough room to get the boats in and out. Mr. Carringi said that there is access from both ends of all the buildings. The Board members discussed walking the property. RETURNING
Kimberly Wilbur & Donald Neubauer, Jr., Applicants
57 Pryn Hill Rd.
Mechanicville, NY 12118
S/B/L 183.-1-30.1 Conservancy
Applicants are seeking a special use permit to operate a marina on their property in Coveville. Attorney Kevin Tollisen appeared on behalf of the Applicants. Mr. Tollison explained that the Applicants are interested in operating a seasonal, low density usage marina. There are 4 existing slips, with 4 new slips proposed. There are no boats there currently, but there is room to dock 8 boats.
As noted at last month’s meeting, the property has 300’ of water frontage, but no road frontage. Access to the property is through an easement over Town-owned property, which was created and deeded in 1994.
The inlet is not on the river; therefore, the waterway is not considered to be a navigable waterway.
Chairman Ian Murray noted that the septic system must be mounded; not built up.
Proof of notice having been furnished by newspaper on May 16, 2006, Chairman Ian Murray opened the Public Hearing at 10:32 p.m., asking that anyone having comments provide their name, address, and state whether they were for or against the proposal.
Judy Chamberlin—against. Ms. Chamberlin raised concerns regarding the cutting of trees, the road cut, the buildings being built without a permit, and the general visual aspect of the property.
All those wishing to speak having done so, the Public Hearing was closed at 10:45 p.m.
Chairman Ian Murray read a letter from the County Planning Board, which raised concerns about the ability of emergency vehicles to access the property.
Paul Griffen questioned the parameters of the special use permit: whether the number of docks should be limited, the hours of operation should be set, driveway standards, whether a tavern would be allowed, or whether outside storage would be permitted.
Ralph Pascucci noted that this parcel was before the Planning Board once before, and he remembered a debate over whether a store carrying provisions would be permissible. He said that the Board can restrict the special use permit to state there can be no consumption on the premises. He said that the Board can also limit the number of parking spaces allowed.
There followed a brief discussion on the history of this property, which included complaints about noise and nuisance violations.
Chairman Ian Murray said that the application will be tabled until Town Attorney William Reynolds advices the Board on the issues that have been raised. TABLED
Review of a Special Use Permit for a law office, granted with conditions on September 29, 2004 (Case # 04-19):
1412 Rte 9P
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 193.6-1-55 Lake Commercial
Town Zoning Officer Robert Hathaway filed a report with the Board stating that he is satisfied that Mr. Mastaitis has completed all requirements for his special use permit.
Robert Park made a motion, seconded by Vice-Chair Susan Cummings, to make the renewable special use permit permanent. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 6 – 0. GRANTED
Approval of Minutes: All board members present had read the minutes of the April 26, 2006 meeting. A motion was made by Robert Park, seconded by Laurie Griffen, to accept the minutes of April 26, 2006 as written. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, and Robert Park – aye. Ralph Pascucci and Paul Griffen abstained from the vote because they did not attend the April meeting. Carried 4 – 0.
Jeffrey & Deborah Dooley, Applicants
111 Condon Rd.
Stillwater, NY 12170
S/B/L 193.-1-7.3 Rural
Chairman Ian Murray reported that this application is still ongoing. Mr. Dooley is proposing a lot-line adjustment with a neighboring parcel to meet road frontage requirements for a special use permit to operate a boat storage facility.
New Business: Town Supervisor Tom Wood summarized the actions taken at the last Town Board meeting.
Paul Griffen summarized the progress made thus far by ZAAC.
The next meeting will be June 28, 2006.
A motion to adjourn was made at 11.35 p.m. by Susan Cummings, and seconded by Laurie Griffen. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Susan Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Paul Griffin – aye, Laurie Griffen –aye, and Robert Park – aye. Carried 6– 0.
Catherine E. Cicero