TOWN OF SARATOGA
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS DRAFT MINUTES
July 24, 2017
Chairman William Moreau called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the flag salute.
Chairman William Moreau welcomed everyone to the meeting and proceeded to review the Rules of the Board.
Zoning Clerk Linda McCabe called the roll: Chairman William Moreau – present, Clifford Hanehan – present, Thomas Carringi – present, Clarence Fosdick – present, Christopher Benn – present, Nicholas Schwartz - present, Steve Mehan - present, Alternate Member Mark Sullivan - absent.
Also present: Kevin Hanna, Jim Schriefer, Jim Vianna, Frank Owens and Garry Robinson. (Sign-in sheet is on file in the Clerk’s office.)
Approval of Minutes: A motion was made by Thomas Carringi, seconded by Chris Benn, to accept the meeting minutes of June 26, 2017. Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan -aye, Thomas Carringi - aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Christopher Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - aye, Steve Mehan - aye, Mark Sullivan - absent.
Carried 7 - 0
26 Squire Circle
Lake Luzerne, NY 12846
S/B/L 193.10-1-19 Lake Residential
Location: 1316 Rt. 9P, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Applicant seeks a 38% building coverage variance, a 16' front setback variance, a 17' 5" two-sides setback variance and a 5' side setback variance in order to build a single family home.
Applicant Kevin Hanna appeared before the Board, reviewed his application and stated he removed the house and foundation due to Building Inspector Gil Albert telling him he had to. He then stated that he is going to put the new house up in the same location, other than moving it closer to the road and centering it on the parcel. He wants it set equal to the neighbor's house.
Chris Benn stated it would be closer to Fitch Rd. and the Applicant replied yes.
Nick Schwartz questioned the requested variances and told the Applicant he can use the neighbor's house as a perspective point only. The Applicant already stated he removed the house and foundation, which takes it out from being grandfathered. He explained that this Board has to look at the building, porch and deck; it's all inclusive and it is the building envelope.
The Applicant responded that Building Inspector Gil Albert told him to remove it.
Chris Benn asked how long the Applicant has owned the property.
The Applicant responded he's owned it for 3 months.
Chris Benn questioned if the Applicant plans to just flip it or live there.
The Applicant replied he won't be living there.
Chairman William Moreau stated the house needs to be moved further back on the lot. If the Applicant moves it back 10' - 12' the frontage variance will go away. Clifford Hanehan agreed.
The Applicant responded he is fine with that, he can try and perhaps move it back 5' or 6'.
Nick Schwartz added the Applicant should move the front porch back 2' to the house.
The Applicant stated he wants to keep it even with the DiSiena house next door; he wants the lake view.
Nick Schwartz responded the Applicant is building a two-story home, the DiSiena is a single story home; the Applicant will have views of the lake front. He then added the Applicant's lake views are not the concern of this Board. The duty of this Board is to give the smallest variance possible. He stated he believes the Applicant can redraw or pull the application.
Steve Mehan stated the Applicant's proposal is not what the Applicant has on his application.
The Applicant responded no, it isn't, but he filled the application out in Building Inspector Gil Albert's office so if the numbers are wrong they should talk to Gil.
Steve Mehan added he is concerned with having a clear sight line when entering Rt. 9P; the Applicant needs to move it all back, make the house more narrow.
Nick Schwartz agreed and said it should move back 13' or more; views wouldn't be impacted, sight line would no longer be an issue. He needs to make the building more narrow, 24' wide.
A lengthy Board discussion continued. Chairman William Moreau stated the application is not correct or in alliance with what the Applicant is telling the Board tonight. He would like a clean application with exactly what the Applicant wants; the numbers do not match what he is asking for. It would be helpful to see the building envelope as well, with proper measurements. The Applicant may want to table this until Building Inspector Gil Albert is present.
Nick Schwartz asked the Applicant if he wanted the Board to decide on what his application states, as he doesn't feel they have correct information, or on what he's been saying to the Board tonight, or would he like to table it until Building Inspector Gil Albert is present.
The Applicant replied he told them in the application what he wants.
After providing Proof of Notice in the Saratogian on July 14, 2017, Chairman William
Moreau opened the Public Hearing at 7: 35 p.m. asking those wishing to speak to please stand and state their name and address. Seeing as no one spoke, Chairman William Moreau closed the Public Hearing at 7:36 p.m.
Chairman William Moreau then read the letter from the Saratoga County Planning Board which indicated no significant county wide or inter-municipal findings. Chairman William Moreau then asked if there were any further Board questions.
Clifford Hanehan questioned exactly what the Applicant is proposing.
The Applicant replied to build in the same footprint that was there, except centering it on the lot.
The Board stated there is no 'preexisting footprint', as the Applicant removed the foundation.
Chairman William Moreau stated the Town has already increased lot coverage to 35% in that district; the Applicant is asking for even more.
The Board questioned if the lake front property is included with these measurements.
The Applicant replied he didn't know.
Chairman William Moreau stated again, that the Applicant can table this until further information can be gathered and Building Inspector Gil Albert is present, or the Board can go forward with what they have in front of them and what they've heard from the Applicant tonight.
Chairman William Moreau asked what the Applicant would like to do.
The Applicant requested his application be tabled until next month.
Chairman William Moreau stated the Applicant needs to push back 25' to the front of the building, if a porch is to be front then it would mean 25' to the porch; percentage of lot coverage is not to exceed 35% and a clean application with measurements matching the map measurements must be submitted for the Board.
*All submittals are due no later than 8:45 a.m. on August 14th for the August 28th meeting.
Tabled at Applicants request.
3 Palmers Maple Shade
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 206.9-2-67 Lake Residential
Applicant seeks a 39'.6" front setback variance, as he has built beyond his previously granted variances.
The Applicant appeared before the Board and stated that Building Inspector Gil Albert told him he was 10% beyond the variances he received previously and sent him to the ZBA.
Chairman William Moreau stated the Applicant is beyond the 25% variance that was granted in
2014; the porch is only 6 inches from the road.
Nick Schwartz questioned how it is that the Applicant did not stay within the confines of the variances.
The Applicant replied the Building Inspector had the plans, ask him.
Nick Schwartz stated the Applicant and his contractor were to stay within the variances, not the
The Applicant replied he had gotten permits to remove the old house and foundation.
Nick Schwartz responded then the house was still there when given the permits in 2014; if so, the submittal the Board has in hand is incorrect, as the map date is 7/2014 and doesn't match the map that the Building Inspector has. Unless the current house was built in 2014, the map is not as-built.
The Applicant replied he's been living in the house for 2 years already. He stated that Building Inspector Gil Albert told him in the winter of 2016 that he had a setback problem and when he showed Building Inspector Gil Albert what he filed with the county he said Building Inspector Gil Albert said okay for the deck but there is still a percentage of lot coverage issue.
The Board reviewed the Notice of Action from 2014 which showed the approval of a 30' x 50' house and an 8' x 15' porch, for total of 1746 square feet.
The Applicant questioned where the 8' x 15' porch measurement came from.
Chairman William Moreau stated it was on his application and Notice of Action from October 27, 2014.
Nick Schwartz stated the Applicant is here because he didn't stay within the approved variances granted him; he built the porch larger than approved.
After a lengthy discussion with the Board the Applicant requested to table this until Building Inspector Gil Albert can attend the meeting.
Tabled at Applicant's request.
(Prior to the following application, Zoning Board Member Clifford Hanehan recused himself from this application, as he owns the property.)
Hanehan Realty Associates, LLC Representative: James Vianna, PLS
340 Co. Rt. 68
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Location: 228 Co. Rt. 69
This Application was before the Planning Board for a minor subdivision, subdividing the lot with an existing house north of Coveville Rd., from the farm and lands on the south side of the road. Seeing as this will create a nonconforming parcel, the Planning Board has sent this to the ZBA. The Applicant seeks a 12,234 sq. ft. area variance and a 2.8' front setback variance in order to subdivide the house and lot north of Coveville Rd. to sell. The balance of the land, 73+/- acres on the south side of the road, will be kept as agriculture fields.
Jim Vianna, PLS, appeared on behalf of the Applicant. He reviewed the history of the parcel, stating this was a separate parcel until the former owner lost his property and it was at that time, when the bank took the land, that the bank merged all the parcels together; the house was built in 1961 and was on a separate deed back then. There is very thick screening along the road, the
house is existing and they request an area variance of 12,234 square feet and a 2'8" front setback to make it a viable lot.
Clarence Fosdick questioned why it can't go to 2 acres, asking if there is a separate owner.
Jim Vianna responded yes and it is a pre-existing lot.
Chairman William Moreau asked if there were any Board questions; there were none. Chairman William Moreau then read the letter from the Saratoga County Planning Board which indicated no significant county wide or inter-municipal findings.
After providing Proof of Notice in the Saratogian on July 14, 2017, Chairman William
Moreau opened the Public Hearing at 8:10 p.m. asking those wishing to speak to please stand and state their name and address. Seeing as no one spoke, Chairman William Moreau closed the Public Hearing at 8:11 p.m.
Chairman William Moreau went through the Balancing Test line by line with the Board; the Board found in favor of the Applicant.
Nicholas Schwartz made a motion, seconded by Clarence Fosdick, to approve the 12,234 square foot and 2'8" front setback variances as presented. Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan - recused, Thomas Carringi - aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Steve Mehan - aye, Christopher Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - aye, Mark Sullivan - absent.
Carried 6 - 0
(Board Member Clifford Hanehan rejoined the Board)
Frank Owens Representative: Garry Robinson
62 Louden Rd.
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Location: Rt. 29, parcel west of Saratoga Apple
Applicant seeks a .94 acre area variance, 38' front setback variance and 61' back setback variance to have a restaurant/concession stand. It will be approximately 8.5' x 30' long trailer and he will be selling hot dogs, burgers etcetera. He also wants a pole barn with picnic tables as well as bathroom facilities. He was before the Planning Board to obtain a special use permit for a restaurant, but as the Town regulations require two acres for a restaurant, an area variance of one acre would be needed, so they had to sent him to the ZBA.
Garry Robinson appeared on behalf of the Applicant. He stated the Applicant seeks opening a food service with 3 separate concession trailers, a large pole barn with picnic tables and bathrooms, along with parking. It is to be on a one acre lot. He stated he's done the test pits for the restrooms. He then added it compliments Saratoga Apple which is next to this parcel.
Steve Mehan questioned if ingress/egress is to be one location.
Garry Robinson replied no, probably 35' on each side, adding he doesn't believe NYSDOT will give them a problem with that.
Chairman William Moreau stated it's only a one acre parcel, a restaurant requires two acres. Is this to be a restaurant?
Garry Robinson responded essentially that is what it is.
Chairman William Moreau read the definition of a restaurant from the Town regulations, stating the parcel doesn't meet code.
Garry Robinson replied it's a food service establishment/restaurant which will be open three seasons.
Chairman William Moreau stated two acres is required for that. You're asking for a one acre variance which is substantial.
Nicholas Schwartz stated he's uncomfortable even reviewing this because in the code book under the definition, this is not a restaurant. A trailer is not a building, it's mobile and has no foundation under it. Even the pole barn/pavilion is not a building, the only building would be the bathrooms. The concept presented does not fit within the bounds of a restaurant according to our regulations. The Applicant can have an office building there with a one acre lot and would not need an area variance, though they'd need setback variances.
Garry Robinson stated they want to do a restaurant there. He felt it is line with Saratoga Apple and that this lot has plenty of room.
Chairman William Moreau stated he cannot compare with Saratoga Apple or any other lot; they have to look at this site and for what they want to do, two acres is required. He believes the proposal is too substantial. He added that the leach field (easterly boundary) has cattails growing there.
Garry Robinson responded they will fill it in there.
Chairman William Moreau questioned if the wetlands have been flagged or delineated and if they're NYSDEC or Army Corp wetlands, as the Applicant has to be 100' away from the wetlands.
Garry Robinson replied no, it wouldn't be Army Corp as it's not connected and they'd only be filling in 1/10th of an acre anyway. He added he doesn't have to stay 100' away as that's only a NYSDEC requirement.
Nicholas Schwartz respectfully and professionally disagreed.
Clifford Hanehan suggested the Applicant purchase another acre, perhaps from the neighbor behind him, then this could go forward. Although it doesn't change the use proposed.
Garry Robinson questioned if they put the trailer on a foundation, would it make it a building.
Clifford Hanehan responded he does not think it makes it a building.
Clarence Fosdick stated on the maps, one shows 3 trailers and the other 5 or 6.
Garry Robinson stated those are smaller.
Clifford Hanehan stated a business model is one thing, but this Board has to look at the regulations and an acre is substantial.
Nicholas Schwartz agreed. It doesn't meet regulations for a restaurant. There's to be no structure with a foundation; trailers are not structures. The only structure would be a bathroom. The proposal does not meet restaurant definitions.
Chairman William Moreau asked if there were any further comments or questions; finding none, Chairman William Moreau read the letter from the Saratoga County Planning Board which indicated no significant county wide or inter-municipal findings. Chairman William Moreau stated he has issues with the size and use.
Clarence Fosdick stated if the Applicant purchased more land, it eliminates some of the variances needed, but use variances are particular, so the Board needs to be careful. Concessions don't meet use variance allowance.
Chairman William Moreau doesn't believe the Town allows use variances for this.
Nicholas Schwartz added even if they have more land, it then comes down to use.
After further discussion, the Board decided they need the opinion of the Town Attorney, who is away right now.
Garry Robinson requested tabling this until next month.
Old Business: Reminder: Workshop with all Boards will be held Thursday, July 27th at 7 p.m.
New Business: None
A motion was made by Clarence Fosdick, seconded by Chris Benn, to adjourn the meeting at 7:55 p.m. Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan -aye, Thomas Carringi -
aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Chris Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - aye, Steve Mehan - aye,
Mark Sullivan - absent. Carried 7 - 0
The next Zoning Board of Appeals meeting will be held July 24, 2017.
~Meeting dates are subject to change~