PLANNING BOARD DRAFT MINUTES
June 28, 2017
Chairman Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Planning Clerk Linda McCabe called the roll: Chairman Ian Murray – present, Laurie
Griffen – present, Patrick Hanehan – present, Robert McConnell – present, Joseph
Lewandowski – present, Brandon Myers – present, George Olsen - present,
Alternate Christopher Koval - absent.
Also attending: Mary Maranville, Cliff Silverstein, Jim Vianna, Jarrad Garone, Stephen Poulin, Garry Robinson, Frank Owens, Edith Rubinson, Terri Korb, Dan Wheeler, Roy Lerman, Paul Murphy. (Sign-in sheet is on file in the Clerk's office)
Minor Subdivision Sketch Plan
Cliff Silverstein #17-15 Owner: Kevin J. Johnson
346 Pyramid Pines Rd. 1107 Rt. 9P
Saratoga, NY 12866 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 193.14-1-23 Lake Residential
Location: 1268 Rt. 9P
Applicant seeks to subdivide his parcel into a two lot subdivision; the property is .85 acre and has 175' of frontage.
Applicant Cliff Silverstein appeared before the Board and reviewed the proposed two lot subdivision.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned how they came up with the 175' of frontage, because he comes up with 132'.
The Applicant stated that's what the realtor told them, that's what the county map shows and that's what their surveyor said.
Chairman Ian Murray stated they may have gone off the tax map, but a survey gives the accurate measurement. This will work even with 132'. He then questioned the intention for the balance of the land across the road, if it will go with Lot 1 or Lot 2.
Applicant Cliff Silverstein responded it will be divided up between them.
Chairman Ian Murray responded the Applicant will need to show that on the survey map. He then stated we can advertise for a public hearing for next month, as long as the Applicant provides the Board with the updated map stamped by the surveyor, with the correct frontage on it as well as the split of the parcel on the lakeside.
Applicant Cliff Silverstein thanked the Board.
Hanehan Realty Assoc. LLC #17-18 Representative: James Vianna, PLS
340 Co. Rt. 68 170 Lohnes Rd.
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Stillwater, NY 12170
Location: 228 Co. Rt. 69 (Coveville Rd.)
Applicant seeks to subdivide the 1.5 acre parcel from the 74.5 acre farm. The Applicant is aware that an area variance is needed.
James Vianna, PLS, appeared on behalf of the Applicant, reviewed the application stating there will be no new construction, it meets all setbacks aside from .5 acres, which he knows will have to go before the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that when he surveys that land to please identify the location of the well and septic on the map and note that the balance of the land will remain in agriculture until such time in the future, if they wish to do something other than agriculture pursuits with the balance of the land, they will have to appear before the Board.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were any Board questions; there were none. He then questioned the Board if they wish to send this to the ZBA for the variance and the Board said yes. Chairman Ian Murray stated the Applicant needs to go before the ZBA for the frontage variance and if granted, come back before this Board for a public hearing.
Jim Vianna thanked the Board.
Special Use Permit Pre-Submission Conference
Stephen Poulin #17-16
282 Hayes Rd.
Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 169.-1-39 Rural
Applicant has an existing non-permitted apartment above his detached garage. He is now selling his property and is seeking a special use permit in order to make it compliant with the Town's regulations.
Applicant Stephen Poulin appeared before the Board stating he sold the property today.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Applicant had put a non-compliant, non-permitted apartment above the garage and now wants to bring it into compliance.
The Applicant replied yes.
Chairman Ian Murray stated it is allowable with the new Town law, but the Applicant must have a separate well and separate septic system for the apartment above the garage.
The Applicant responded that in the past the property had a couple of trailers on it and the septic is tied to the old trailer septic. The new house has its own septic.
Laurie Griffen questioned if they are operational.
The Applicant responded yes and added that the water draws from the house for the apartment, which they used for his mother-in-law; they never rented it out. The realtor is the one who marketed this as a home with a rental property. He never intended that.
Chairman Ian Murray stated regardless of that, the property must come into compliance in case the new owner wants to rent it out. Although the Applicant didn't intend to rent it out, he did construct a non-permitted, non-compliant apartment. He then explained that in future there's the potential that the new owner may want to subdivide it and it cannot be subdivided if the water and septic are connected as is. This is why it has to become compliant now.
Patrick Hanehan stated the Applicant can take it down and turn it back into just a garage.
The Applicant responded no, the buyer wants the apartment.
Chairman Ian Murray stated in order to become compliant the Board needs verification of the septic system; there are distances that must be maintained between the well and the septic, so the Board needs to know the location and it needs to be identified on the map. He also stated it does need another well, as the apartment cannot be tied to the house. He added that the well can go on the property line but the septic can't be more than 10' from the road.
The Applicant questioned what he's to do from here.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Applicant should check the well cap and on the inside of it he'll see the well driller's name and also how deep the well is. He could contact that company to have them put in the new well. He told him to be sure the setbacks are met; he needs to maintain 100' separation distance from well to septic on both. Chairman Ian Murray then added that the Applicant will also need to contact the surveyor and have the surveyor locate and identify the well and septic systems on the map, so the Board knows where they are and that will dictate where the new well can be placed; then have the new well's location identified on the map also. He could possibly use the existing for the garage - terminate it from the house and then put the new one in for the house.
The Applicant questioned if this needs to be done between now and the next meeting in order for a public hearing.
Chairman Ian Murray responded yes.
Frank Owens #17-17 Representative: Garry Robinson, P.E.
62 Louden Rd.
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 157.-1-29 Rural Residential
Location: 1167 Rt. 29
Returning Applicant seeks a special use permit to open a restaurant concession business at 1167 Rt. 29. The 1.12 acre parcel has 413 feet of frontage.
Garry Robinson appeared on behalf of the Applicant, stating the parcel is 1.6 acres and that the Applicant would like a restaurant/concession stand. It will be approximately an 8.5' x 30' long trailer and he will be selling hot dogs, burgers etcetera. He also wants to construct a pole barn with picnic tables as well as bathroom facilities on this parcel, adding he designed the septic system. He passed out photos depicting the type of trailer and pole barn he plans to use. He stated he knows they need variances and will have to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that is absolutely correct; the parcel doesn't meet regulations. He questioned if this is to be a seasonal restaurant.
Garry Robinson said yes, three seasons.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he will need approval from NYSDOH (New York State Department of Health) and a NYSDOH permit is required for potable water.
Chairman Ian Murray then stated there is no location of septic shown; it needs to be on the map; need to be sure they meet setbacks.
Garry Robinson said he tested where the leach field should be.
Chairman Ian Murray responded there's serious compaction in the soil or high ground pocket of water by the well. On the second test hole you encountered water at 2"; he doesn't think they can meet requirements. Chairman Ian Murray then stated on the north-west corner, where the fill was put in, the Applicant needs to have that area investigated. ACOE (Army Corp of Engineer) wetlands are probably there and that will require a permit. In regards to SWPPP (storm water pollution prevention plan), when sent to NYSDOT, be sure to look at ingress/egress; a curb cut permit through NYSDOT is needed, but unsure if it is obtainable.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were any Board questions.
Robert McConnell questioned if the ZBA will give a 50% variance.
Chairman Ian Murray responded the Applicant should consider merging the parcels to help.
Merging would make it better - 50% is a very large variance. Chairman Ian Murray stated he feels it is excessive for the lot size.
Robert McConnell stated as it's a different use, it's iffy.
Public Hearing Special Use Permit
Jarrad Garone #17-12
832 Knickerbocker Rd.
Schaghticoke, NY 12154
Location: 886 Rt. 4 South
Returning Applicant seeks a special use permit to open a bar, restaurant, gas pump station for boats and ice-cream stand. The name will be The Cove on the Hudson and the property is the old Alcove bar & restaurant.
Jarrad Garone appeared before the Board.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that new information was brought in and the merging of the two parcels for this application occurred today; the Board was provided copies of the updated deed reflecting the merger. He then asked the Applicant if he understood why the Board had to have this before going forward and the Applicant responded yes.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned what further investigation the Applicant has done concerning the septic location and parking, as the Board requested this the last time he was before them.
Applicant Jarrad Garone responded there's been no further investigation, he's putting in a new system.
Chairman Ian Murray asked where is it going and the Applicant replied in the existing location.
Laurie Griffen stated the current system could be where everyone parks. She then asked when the boats will be moved, as he previously told the Board the boats would all be moved.
Applicant Jarrad Garone responded the owner has until the 30th to move them and if he doesn't, he will move them himself.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned what the hours of operation will be.
Applicant Jarrad Garone replied 11 a.m. - 11 p.m.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned if there will be outside entertainment and if it will be year round.
Applicant Jarrad Garone replied yes, and since it will be mostly outdoors it will end at 11 p.m.
He said he's probably going to go down to 5 days weekly in the winter and hours will be 4 p.m. - 10 p.m.
Laurie Griffen questioned the fuel tank location.
Applicant Jarrad Garone responded it will not be moved from its current place.
Laurie Griffen then stated that the NYSDOH (New York State Department of Health) certificate is for 55 people until the new septic is in. She then noted that the address on the NYSDOH certificate is incorrect and he needs to have that corrected. It should read Town of Saratoga, not Village of Schuylerville.
Applicant Jarrad Garone stated he'd like to open Saturday, but has to order food etcetera.
Chairman Ian Murray responded if approved, the boats must be moved before the Board can let him open. The owner was supposed to move them, but only 6 have been moved; they were all supposed to be gone by the 30th, which is in two days.
Applicant Jarrad Garone responded that Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert is going out there tomorrow to go over the parking spaces.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Applicant needs to have Jim Vianna, PLS, chart out the parking on the map and the location of the septic.
Laurie Griffen stated there needs to be separate parking for the restaurant also.
Chairman Ian Murray reminded the Applicant that he told him to get the septic investigated and on the map. He also reminded him the Board needs to know where the leach field is as it could be where everyone parks and you cannot have that. He also added that Town Engineer Ken Martin and Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert need to approve it also.
Laurie Griffen and Patrick Hanehan suggested he put in Port-A-Potty's and they can set a deadline date when the new system must be in and operating. Laurie Griffen suggested a 2 month time period.
George Olsesn questioned if this has to receive a Certificate of Occupancy (CO) from Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert. If so, bathrooms will be needed.
Brandon Myers questioned why parking isn't on the site plan. Chairman Ian Murray stated this is the survey.
Laurie Griffen stated the Board needs a site plan with parking, signage, etcetera. She told the Applicant he's getting there, but just not quite there yet. The Board has to make sure everything goes forward and not backward.
Robert McConnell stated he believes the Board is taking chances rushing this and Chairman Ian Murray agreed.
George Olsen would like to see parking as he has concerns with the location of the septic.
Robert McConnell said they could make it conditional; he'd be comfortable once the septic is identified.
Chairman Ian Murray stated they'd need final review of the deed by Town Attorney William Reynolds, Sanitary Design and Installation by a professional, Town Engineer Ken Martin's review, Inspection by Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert, Maximum occupancy of 55, removal of the boats, parking plan, boat parking plan, restaurant parking plan, as well as signage and lighting.
Laurie Griffen reiterated the boats need to go.
Patrick Hanehan said he thinks the Applicant should come back once everything is done; there's be too many conditions.
Brandon Myers said he'll be lucky to get all that done in a month; it's a big list of needs.
Applicant Jarrad Garone said if he finds the septic then he can go forward.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he's not if favor of that. The Board doesn't know what is under there, and they cannot approve anything substandard. Not knowing it's location for certain is a liability to the Town if they approve.
Joseph Lewandowski doesn't want the Applicant to lose the season; they could have Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert and Town Engineer Ken Martin inspect the septic, parking, safety reviews.
Laurie Griffen stated they could vote for contingencies but feels it's unrealistic for a 2 week turnaround.
Chairman Ian Murray stated we did advertise for a public hearing for tonight.
Proof of Notice having been furnished by newspaper on June 18, 2017, Chairman Ian Murray opened the Public Hearing at 8:38 p.m., asking those wishing to speak to please stand and state their name and address; seeing as no one spoke, Chairman Ian Murray closed the Public Hearing at 7:39 p.m.
Laurie Griffen read the short form EAF, line by line, which was completed by the Board.
v Consolidation deed reviewed and approved by Bill Reynolds
v Sanitary system designed, approved and installed
v Review and sign off by Ken Martin
v Hours of operation 11 a.m.-11 p.m. Entertainment ending by 8 p.m.
v Maximum occupation set at 55 per DOH
v 35 parking spaces provided
v Site plan showing parking for above and boat/trailer parking
v All boats removed
v Signage and lighting
Chairman Ian Murray – nay, Laurie Griffen – aye, Patrick Hanehan – nay, Joseph Lewandowski – aye, Robert McConnell – aye, Brandon Myers – nay, George Olsen - aye, Christopher Koval - absent. Carried 4 - 3
Approved with Conditions
Laurie Griffen made a motion, seconded by Joseph Lewandowski, to amend the conditional approval by also placing a 6 month review/renewal on it. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Laurie Griffen – aye, Patrick Hanehan – aye, Joseph Lewandowski – aye, Robert McConnell – aye, Brandon Myers – aye, George Olsen - aye, Christopher Koval - absent.
Carried 7 - 0 for the 6 month review/renewal.
To clarify, prior to the issuance of the Special Use Permit, the Applicant must complete the following:
1. Consolidation deed reviewed and approved by Bill Reynolds
2. Sanitary system designed, approved and installed
3. Review and sign off by Ken Martin
4. Hours of operation 11am-11pm. Entertainment ending by 8pm
5. Maximum occupation set at 55 per DOH
6. 35 parking spaces provided
7. Site plan showing parking for above and boat/trailer parking
8. All boats removed
9. Signage and lighting
10. 6 month renewable permit
Special Use Permit Amendment
Mary T. Maranville and Kevin A. Dott #17-14
257 N. Alvarado Ave.
Ojai, CA 93023
S/B/L 155.-1-63.2 Rural Residential
Location: 727 Rt. 29
Applicant wishes to amend her Special Use Permit by adding more parking spaces.
Applicant Mary Maranville and Ken Dott appeared before the Board and stated she purchased a portion of Whooley Rd. which now gives her a total of 6 acres.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Applicant wants an amendment but gave the Board no details for spaces.
Applicant Mary Maranville stated she wants to double the parking to 80 spaces.
Laurie Griffen questioned where they would be located. The Applicant pointed out on the map where she wants them to go.
Chairman Ian Murray stated, as they told the previous Applicant, the Board needs to see how they are placing them on the map. He added they also need to identify the new septic system on the map.
Applicant Mary Maranville stated they are putting it in a different area. They did the perc test and Gil Albert said it is much better in the new location; they're replacing the existing tank and going across with a pump system to eliminate the old system. They'll re-grade the old roadway to get extra parking also.
Chairman Ian Murray stated they'd rather see gravel instead of blacktop.
Applicant Mary Maranville stated they don't think there will be too much traffic due to clients using hotels and bussing everyone in. The extra parking will be used for overflow parking and they will be keeping it as green as possible.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned who is doing the septic engineering and the Applicant replied Rich Nolan.
Chairman Ian Murray said they can't fill in the storm water retention basin. The Applicant needs to have their engineer get in touch with the LA Group to see what they did for the previous owner and ask for location of the retention basin. He added they also need to have their engineer do the parking layout and site plan.
Laurie Griffen stated the scope of the parking has changed; she questioned if the business is changing too.
Applicant Mary Maranville replied her priority is to keep guests safe and the shuttle system will be good and Uber is coming so most folks would want to use them as well as the shuttle system.
Laurie Griffen questioned if the scope of client base has changed. This is supposed to be education based.
Applicant Mary Maranville responded she can't afford to do that now.
Chairman Ian Murray stated then the scope has changed.
Applicant Mary Maranville stated occupancy is 227 which is why she bought the extra road area for parking.
Chairman Ian Murray responded and also for code compliancy. The Board needs to know if the scope of the business has changed. The Board needs to see the parking. We have to make certain this is done correctly now. The Applicant could win the lottery tomorrow; it is not up to the next owner to make things right.
Laurie Griffen questioned what the Applicant's intentions are. The special use permit was approved based upon the education business. We need a better narrative on what you plan to do there.
Ken Dott stated the plan is to have as many weddings there as possible.
Laurie Griffen stated the special use permit was for the education business with some weddings to supplement that business. Is the intent to also use this as a bed & breakfast? The Applicant's having people stay there overnight to prep for the weddings.
Applicant Mary Maranville replied no, this will be her second residence.
Laurie Griffen responded the Applicant said people will be staying overnight.
Applicant Mary Maranville responded yes, but she only wants this as farm to table events.
Laurie Griffen stated the scope has changed and the Board needs a clear narrative.
Applicant Mary Maranville said she still wants to do what she originally said.
Laurie Griffen responded that the Applicant stated this will be her second residence. She questioned if this is to be her home.
Applicant Mary Maranville replied yes, once she sells her house in CA. She then said things have changed; this has cost her a lot of money in refurbishing.
Laurie Griffen responded this has changed from what was presented originally to this Board.
Applicant Mary Maranville complained about all the regulations she needs to comply with for the building.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he won't comment since that is Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert's purview.
Ken Dott complained that they're trying to do things right, but Gil Albert keeps changing his mind on what they need to do.
George Olsen stated building codes have changed over the past few months.
Chairman Ian Murray added they can't push that on the Planning Board. This Board does not do code issues.
Ken Dott reiterated that the Board needs drawings showing parking and they can use the previous owners parking.
Chairman Ian Murray responded correct, as well as a narrative.
Ken Dott replied he doesn't know how many times a year they'll do weddings.
Chairman Ian Murray and Brandon Myers stated Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert is not going to design it for them; the narrative is needed.
Ken Dott responded three weeks ago they were told they need a state inspection, on Monday they were told they didn't; which is it? Gil keeps giving different stories; they want a punch list from him. He said they absolutely need sprinklers, now he says they don't. They're trying to follow his guidelines but they keep changing.
Chairman Ian Murray stated this Board doesn't change its mind, when the Board states it needs something from an applicant, it needs what was requested.
Dan Wheeler spoke with the Board concerning a lot-line adjustment on Cramer Rd. After discussing the parcel Chairman Ian Murray stated a lot-line adjustment can be done.
Old Business: none
New Business: none
The next regular meeting will be held Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at .
Linda A. McCabe