TOWN OF SARATOGA
PLANNING BOARD
MINUTES -
DRAFT
MARCH 24, 2004
7:30 PM
Chairman
Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Clerk
Ruth Drumm called the roll.� Chairman
Ian Murray � present, Susan Cummings� �
present, Ralph Pascucci � absent, Albert Baker � absent, Paul Griffen � absent,
Laurie Griffen � present, Robert Park � present, and Alternate Barney Drumm �
present
Approval
of Minutes: All board members present had read the minutes of the February 25,
2004 meeting.� A motion was made by Robert Park and seconded by Laurie Griffen
to accept the minutes of February 25, 2004 as written.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
absent, Albert Baker � absent, Paul Griffen � absent, Robert Park - aye, Laurie
Griffen � aye, Susan Cummings - aye, and Barney Drumm - aye.�
Carried
5-0
Applicants:
Preliminary
Subdivision
����������� �116 County Route 68
����������� �Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Conservancy District S/B/L
167-1-16, 17, 9
Applicants
seeking a three-lot subdivision of 6.93 acres on County Rd. 68, fronting Fish
Creek. Lot 1 to Robert and Jean Tarrant of 1.69 acres for a proposed marina,
Lot 2 and Lot 3 for daughters Sandra Dalzell and Denise Tefoe.�� Sandra Dalzell and Edward Charbonneau
addressed the board.� Chairman Ian
Murray stated that per the minutes of the February 25th meeting, and
with discussions with other board members, the map being presented tonight is
not what was recommended and it is not acceptable as presented.� Lot #3 is now presented as a nonconforming
lot with a 20� wide roadway that would have to be 30� wide for any possibility
of approval.� The board insisted that
they never recommended such a lot.� It
is looking now like a flag lot but still doesn�t fit the criteria to create a
flag lot.� Chairman Ian Murray stated
that Lot #3, as presented now, is not what was discussed with Attorney Dean Coon
at the last meeting.� Edward Charbonneau
asked if the 30� driveway is all that is needed to make it acceptable.� Chairman Ian Murray said a new driveway
would be needed that would withstand access for a 50,000 pound emergency
vehicle.� Robert Tarrant addressed the
board and expressed his disagreement with what Chairman Ian Murray was stating
and that the map is exactly what was recommended.�
Chairman
Ian Murray again stated that it is not what was recommended and Robert Park
added that the board would not agree to a 20� access when the regulations are
clear that
30�
is required.
�
(Ralph Pascucci arrived at 7:55 p.m.)
Sandra
Dalzell explained that at the last meeting she was requesting to divide the #2
and #3 lots into 2 future saleable lots of 2 + acres each.� Ian Murray said that the saleable lot issue
was not discussed at the last meeting and that the board at that meeting was
trying to improve a nonconforming lot by adding road frontage.� It was noted that dimensions were not
mentioned by either the applicants or the board. Laurie Griffen pointed out
that the misunderstanding seems to have arisen because at the last meeting the
Charbonneau�s were talking about making two future saleable lots and the
Planning Board was trying to correct the nonconforming lot issue.� Chairman Ian Murray and Ralph Pascucci
agreed that they recommended changes to Dean Coon and the Charbonneau�s to make
the center lot a viable conforming lot to build a house on and to move the line
accordingly away from his house. Robert Tarrant again expressed his distress
with the board over the progress of the process that was started last
November.� Chairman Ian Murray noted
that changes have occurred in the size of the marina lot, which started out as
2.5 acres then went to 2 acres and is now 1.69 acres.� Other changes have been made over the last two meetings in the
effort to divide the parcels to accommodate the existing structures and with
saving the dock for the Charbonneau�s.�
Laurie Griffen noted that there was no notation of a cottage on lot #3
on the map the board had last month.�
The board agreed that it was not included on the map and would have made
things much clearer.� Town Engineer Ken
Martin noted that even with the 30� access they would still need to go before
the ZBA for a variance because it does not meet the criteria of a flag
lot.� There is still a problem with
frontage, plus the 600-foot separations of driveways requirement.� Ralph Pascucci added that they could move
the line to give 30� frontage to Lot #3 which would give them the ability to
put in a driveway and improve a nonconforming lot and then go to the ZBA for
set back, side lot, and flag lot variances.�
Sandra Dalzell asked why she had not heard anything about a flag lot
prior to this evening and asked what it is? The definition of a flag lot was
explained to Sandra Dalzell.� Chairman Ian Murray stated
that flag lots were not discussed at the last meeting because it was not an
option that was recommended. Sandra Dalzell questioned if they made the
additional changes could they be assured the ZBA would grant the variances
needed.� Chairman Ian Murray stated that
he could not guarantee that, since it is a separate board.� Town Engineer Ken Martin then mentioned that
the wetlands are not shown on the map and he questioned if a road could be
built to the flag lot due to possible wetlands or other obstacles.� Ralph Pascucci noted that based on past
practice, they haven�t made a person put in a driveway if they had other access
as long as they have the frontage to put a driveway in, if needed, in the
future.� Chairman Ian Murray explained
the three options open to the Charbonneau�s.�
The first is to move the line on Lot #3 by 10� so that there is a
30�access and go to the ZBA for the variances needed.� The second option is to subdivide it as discussed at the last
meeting where it was suggested that a portion of the lands of Edward
Charbonneau be combined with Parcel #2 to provide it frontage, and then combine
the remainder with the lands of Sandra Dalzell and Denise Tefoe, providing
frontage to their parcel and go to the ZBA for the variances needed.� The third option would be to go back to the
first November meeting proposal of 2 lots instead of 3, which would be
accomplished by combining Lots 2 and 3 and would also require a variance for
the setback and the 80,000 sq. ft. criteria depending on how the lines are
drawn.� It was noted that the third
option of two lots is the most favorable to the Planning Board. Chairman Ian
Murray asked Ken Martin if it went to the boards as a two-lot subdivision would
the SEQR need to be amended?� Ken Martin
said that in that case the SEQR would only be required for the marina but with
three lots the SEQR would need to be amended. The Charbonneau�s expressed the
need for input from both boards on which option would most likely gain their
approvals. Chairman Ian Murray stated that he would speak to the Zoning Board
of Appeals Chairman, Stephen Bodnar, about a special joint meeting of both
boards for that purpose.� TABLED
There will be a public hearing next month if all application materials are in on time and if the SEQR information is complete.�
Case #04-01: Robert L. and
Jean Tarrant,
Applicants�
����������� ��������� 41 Cliffside Drive
��������������������� Saratoga Springs, NY
12866��� (S/B/L 167-1-16, Conservancy
District)
Applicant
is returning seeking a Special Use Permit to establish a marina on 1.69 acres
fronting Fish Creek off County Road 68. A seasonal rowing center is planned for
this location. Chairman Ian Murray explained that a lead agency needs to be
designated for the SEQR process.� A motion was made by Ralph Pascucci and
seconded by Laurie Griffen to declare the Town of Saratoga Planning Board as
the lead agency in the SEQR process for the proposed marina.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
aye, Robert Park - aye, Laurie Griffen � aye, Barney Drumm � aye, Susan
Cummings � aye, Paul Griffen � absent, Albert Baker � absent.� Carried 6 � 0
Chairman
Ian Murray stated that there are some additional things needed.� An area variance, a setback variance,
clarification on frontage and the 300� minimum lot width are needed from the
ZBA.� For the SEQR, a wetland
delineation and elevation for the floodplain are needed.� Chairman Ian Murray stated that the Special
Use Permit application would be resubmitted to the County.� The 45-day clock for required action on the
application starts once the information for the SEQR comes back from all the
agencies involved.� Chairman Ian Murray
explained that the first process ended with the Special Use Permit being denied
at the February 25, 2004 meeting since action must be taken within 45 days of
application and now must be started over again.� Ken Martin requested that they have all buildings and parking
layouts overlaid on the plot plan, and then mail the plan to his office in
Glens Falls.���
#04-07
Witt Construction���� ����������������������� ����������� ����������� ANW
Holdings, Inc., Owner
����������� 563 North Broadway������� ����������������������� ����������� ����������� 194
Woodlawn Avenue
����������� Saratoga Springs, NY 12866������������� ����������� ����������� Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Rural District 2, S/B/L
206-1-38
Applicant
proposes a residential conservation subdivision of 9.31+/- acres at 29 Brown
Road, Town of Saratoga, into 3 lots of 1.4+/- acres each with 5.025 acres
remaining open.
Chairman
Ian Murray reported that he had met with Town Attorney William Reynolds
regarding the proposed conservation subdivision on 9.31 acres, where 10 acres
are required, and it was determined that an area variance from the ZBA would be
needed.� Chairman Ian Murray stated they
would need to deny the application and they would need to go to the Zoning
Board of Appeals.� He stated that a
positive recommendation would be given to the ZBA.�� There are some conditions that would need to be met before
returning to the Planning Board which are the engineered design for the septic
systems on the plan for all three lots, subject to revision; a submission to
Town Attorney William Reynolds of the shared driveway agreement for his review.� Chairman Ian Murray explained that Town
Attorney William Reynolds wants to review shared driveway agreements on a
case-by-case basis, opting not to adopt the County�s example of an
easement/maintenance agreement for common driveways.� Chairman Ian Murray asked Dave Carr if he could enhance the
buffer on the northern lot, Lot #1, next to the McSweeney�s.�� He agreed to work on that and Ian Murray
agreed to oversee the buffer enhancements.�
Robert Park suggested that Dave Carr amend his short form SEQR regarding
the adjoining properties and Dave Carr agreed to do so.� Ralph Pascucci asked if he had met with the
adjoining landowners and he said no, but he is still open to that.� Ian Murray suggested that he include a note
about that on the plan and Dave Carr agreed.���� Chairman Ian Murray asked for a motion for action.� Ralph
Pascucci made the motion and Susan Cummings seconded it to deny the subdivision
application with a positive recommendation to the ZBA for the area variance
needed for the conservation subdivision with conditions.�� Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Ralph Pascucci �
aye, Robert Park - aye, Laurie Griffen � aye, Barney Drumm � aye, Susan
Cummings � aye, Paul Griffen � absent, Albert Baker � absent.� Carried 6 � 0� DENIED
143
Circular Street
Saratoga
Springs, NY 12866
Rural Residential District
S/B/L 155.-1-46.11, 56.12, 46.2, 46.3
Applicant proposes Schuyler Hills, a 32-lot conservation subdivision on 89.7 +/- acres on the north side of Route 29 (across from Bryant�s Bridge Rd.), with 46.39 +/- acres open space. Dave Carr of the LA Group addressed the board representing Willard Chamberlin and Diane Martindale, who came before the board previously in November for information with John Arpey.� He explained that this subdivision was previously approved as a conventional subdivision in 1990 for 35 lots, but the approval has lapsed.� The property at that time was zoned as Moderate Density Residential but it is now zoned as Rural Residential.� It is now being presented as a conservation subdivision of 32 lots.� David Carr explained that the subdivision is planned around the topography with the best sites for the homes in mind and then a street pattern was developed to access the house sites.�� He stated that in following the conservation subdivision regulations, of the 89 + acres, after removing the 18 acres of steep slopes and the 2.79 acres of wetlands, there is about 69 acres of usable land of which they are proposing 46.39 acres of open space, which is more than 50 % of the usable land.� He mentioned that there is no real agricultural land to set aside and the wetlands may need to be reflagged.� Ralph Pascucci
asked if he spoke to any of the adjoining property owners to see if a trade could be made so that a 4-way intersection at Route 29 and Bryant�s Bridge Road could be made.� Dave Carr would like to speak with Jay Janzack of the State DOT first about the specifications for that.� Sue Cummings recalled that with the previous submission in 1990, there was a buffer issue.� Dave Carr replied that the proposed 75� buffer meets our regulations and is greater than what was previously submitted.� Chairman Ian Murray inquired about the intentions for the open space and he replied there would be conservation easements on it.� Ralph Pascucci inquired about the storm water drainage and Dave Carr replied there is a natural drainage way through the middle of the property that would be managed.� Robert Park asked who would maintain the road and Dave Carr replied that it would be a Town road.� Ken Martin requested a grading plan with the profile and Ralph Pascucci requested no cut zones to be marked.� Ian Murray asked about the elevations.� Dave Carr replied that at Route 29, at its lowest, it is 220� and at the highest point at the back of the property it is 305�, making an 85�rise.� Laurie Griffen inquired about the approximate cost of the homes to be built and Willard Chamberlin and Diane Martindale said they were not sure at this time.� They estimated the target market at around $350,000.� Dave Carr asked about the next step.� He was told to have the soil tested, the wetlands checked/mapped, go to the DOT regarding the road and check with the Health Department along with providing a visual study of the development.� Chairman Ian Murray suggested a site visit and he will contact Dave Carr within a week or two.� Applicants will be returning.
Information
Darren & Kristi
Carrara
888 Route 29
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
Rural Residential
District S/B/L 155.-1-35.1�
Applicants seeking information on obtaining a Special Use
Permit to open a Retail Comic Book Shop in their home, located next to the
Farmer�s Daughter. No one appeared.
Old Business: Ralph Pascucci requested an
amendment to the February 24, 2004 minutes.�
A motion was made by Ralph Pascucci and seconded by Ian Murray to amend
the February 24, 2004 minutes to include in the minutes of the Michael
Giovanone pre-submission conference for a special use permit, the following:
The board requested a new plan using the entire 8 acres if they still want 32
units. Chairman Ian Murray � aye, Ralph Pascucci � aye, Robert Park - aye,
Laurie Griffen � aye, Barney Drumm � aye, Susan Cummings � aye, Paul Griffen �
absent, Albert Baker � absent.� Carried
6 � 0
New Business: Chairman Ian Murray asked
the board members if they would like to attend a meeting with a friend of his
who has mines.� It was felt that it
would be helpful to discuss mining permits and the process involved.� The meeting will be April 2, 2004 at noon at
the Ripe Tomato Restaurant in Malta.�
Please contact Ian Murray if you can attend.�
Ian
Murray also provided the board with a letter from Mark Spatafore from DEC
regarding the Valente Mining Application and the criteria for restrictions that
the town
can
comment back to the DEC on, and board discussion followed.� Ken Martin expressed the need to request a
secondary containment for where they fuel their trucks.�
Robert
Park inquired, regarding the DiSiena case, that if once a case is challenged
and taken to court and the court overturns the board�s decision does that give
the applicant the right to automatically go ahead?� Chairman Ian Murray replied that they would need to come back to
the board for a site plan review.�
The
next meeting will be Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 7:30 p.m.
A motion to adjourn was made at 10:15 p.m. by Robert Park and seconded by Susan
Cummings.� Chairman Ian Murray � aye,
Ralph Pascucci � aye, Barney Drumm � aye, Robert Park - aye, and Susan
Cummings, Laurie Griffen � aye, Paul Griffen � absent, Albert Baker �
absent.� Carried 6-0
Respectfully
submitted,
Ruth
L. Drumm, Clerk